This article kicks so much ass, I love to see it. I also love to see that the MTA has taken the "fuck you, make me" approach to Donald Trump. Good job all around! I'd love to see this idea spread!
this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2025
46 points (100.0% liked)
City Life
2133 readers
1 users here now
All topics urbanism and city related, from urban planning to public transit to municipal interest stuff. Both automobile and FuckCars inclusive.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
This is good to read, but I feel like the people who oppose congestion pricing / are pro-car operate on feelings and vibes. Facts won't really convince them.
but I feel like the people who oppose congestion pricing / are pro-car operate on feelings and vibes.
you're describing a small percentage of the population here--most people have no strong opinions on congestion pricing (because it doesn't really have a prior in the United States), and as such it's extremely important to write articles like this which can show them that it is working and it benefits them in every way
you’re describing a small percentage of the population here
do you mean a small population on this community, or in life?
I live in NYC and most people haven't brought it up to me, a handful have whined about it. But I also know a lot of urban nerds that love it.
do you mean a small population on this community, or in life?
in life. most people in NYC have literally never experienced this one way or the other before NYC implemented it, and certainly aren't seeking out the kinds of spaces that would be partisan on it in some way. their opinions on this are accordingly malleable based on "does this feel good or bad," and you can see this in how there's already been a large change toward supporting congestion pricing as the benefits have become increasingly tangible:
“A plurality of voters [40-33%] wants to see congestion pricing eliminated, as Trump has called for. Pluralities of New York City voters [42-35%] and Democrats want congestion pricing to remain, Hochul’s position,” Greenberg said. “In June 2024, voters approved of Hochul’s temporary halt of congestion pricing 45-23%. In December, voters opposed Hochul’s announced reimposition of the congestion pricing tolls, 51-29%.
“Having one-third of voters statewide supporting the continuation of congestion pricing is the best congestion pricing has done in a Siena College poll,” Greenberg said. “Additionally, support currently trails opposition by seven points, when it was 22 points in both December and June 2024.”
certainly aren’t seeking out the kinds of spaces that would be partisan on it in some way. their opinions on this are accordingly malleable based on “does this feel good or bad,”
That's in line with what I was saying - that most people's takes on congestion pricing (and honestly all other policy) is just vibes. I'd hope that stats and facts would sway them, but I've met people. But then again you cite there a large change towards supporting it as evidence builds, so maybe there's hope.
How about air quality?
congestion pricing has been pretty consistently found to make air quality better for obvious reasons (fewer cars on the roads) so you can safely infer this is also the case here. unfortunately, there are several significant air quality variables outside of NYC's control that are probably going to make reductions less obvious than, say, Stockholm or London. most recently, nearby and unseasonable wildfires caused the city to have several days of terrible air quality. back in 2023, those huge Canadian wildfires caused the same problems on and off for their entire duragion.
Im mostly pro congestion pricing but there are two things that make me sympathetic to some of the detractors.
One issue is that well, the New York metro area as a whole is better than the rest of the country when it comes to public transit and getting people into the city. It is still has big gaps and holes. For example if you live west of the Hudson the metro north is not as complete as east and then you have towns in nj also not on the rail line. These people don't have the means to be able to take public transit in a way that doesn't add a significant, significant amount of time to their already long commute. And on top of that, they're already paying pretty hefty tolls to get to and into the city on top of the car maintenance and the gas. And a lot of these people live in the far fringes of the metro area, not just because they are priced out of the closer, better connected suburbs, as well as the city itself.
The other side of the argument is that the MTA is genuinely dysfunctional. Like it was only a few years ago that the governor decided to try and do a surprise visit to see the workers working overtime and found that nobody was there.The MTA is mismanaged in all facets. I don't blame people for being skeptical that this money will be well utilized.
That said, a large majority of people who are anti- congestion are just car-brained and do live near a convenient rail or park and ride and Would probably improve their own quality of life if they just took public transit instead of sitting in traffic every day.