this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My take is similar to the researchers: the salience is cultural, not innate. And it has also to do with the consistency of whatever you're referring to, something industrialisation changed.

For example. In pre-industrial societies, you'll often see orange things, but their tone is rarely consistent: iron oxide will vary depending on where you got it from, oranges (the fruit) can be actually orange or more like a plain yellow, no two sunsets are identical, so goes on. It's hard to reliably point and say "orange is the colour of $object1 and `$object2", when the colour of the object changes so much.

Red, though? Blood. The colour might vary a bit, but nowhere as much. Black? Soot. White? Clouds, chalk. It's simply easier to generate points of reference for those.

Mass production kicks in, and now you have procedures to reliably generate things that look the same. It isn't just industrialisation, but industrialisation plus everything else around it.

Maybe if you’re an artist or an interior designer, you know specific meanings for as many as 50 or 100 different words for colors – like turquoise, amber, indigo or taupe. But this is still a tiny fraction of the colors that we can distinguish.

It's important to distinguish here between basic and non-basic colour terms; for example, in English you can say "amber is a type of yellow", but if you say *"green is a type of yellow" people will look at you funny - even if both amber and green can be made with yellow + something else (a bit of red vs. a lot of blue). That's because "green" is taken as a basic colour, independent from "yellow", while "amber" isn't.

I believe that even those artists and designers with 50~100 different colour words are still using the same basic colours as the rest. At most one or two new ones. (Cyan comes to my mind, though. I wouldn't be surprised if some English speakers took it as its own basic colour, apart from both blue and green. Much like Russian does, even among non-programmers.)

For instance, “orange” comes from the fruit; “red” comes from Sanskrit for blood

This is a fairly minor point but that etymology is incorrect - English "red" is inherited from Proto-Indo-European *h₁rewdʰ- "red". The Sanskrit word for blood is असृज् ásṛj, that comes from a different PIE root, *h₁ésh₂r̥ "flowing blood".

(Sanskrit did inherit *h₁rewdʰ- though; for example as रुधिर rudhirá "red".)

[–] koavf@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Red, though? Blood. The colour might vary a bit, but nowhere as much. Black? Soot. White? Clouds, chalk. It’s simply easier to generate points of reference for those.

Too true and makes sense, but what confuses and vexes me is the idea that "yellow" would predate "blue": Blue things include bodies of water and the sky (assuming the azure/cyan and royal blue/standard blue are the same color), but what important thing is there that is yellow that we need to talk about so urgently? Blue comes up with some foods, but it is rare and other natural phenomena like colors of a night sky, but I'm struggling to think of the reason why we needed "yellow" prior to that. Any conjecture?

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Twisting a bit the reasoning of the text: perhaps the contrast between yellow vs. others is more meaningful than the contrast between blue vs. others. For a lot of things it's a big deal if it's yellow or not: unripe vs. ripe fruit, egg white vs. yolk, gold vs. other metals. Cheese also comes to my mind; we humans have been doing cheese since forever, and aged cheeses are typically yellower (and less likely to spoil).

In the meantime, the distinction between blue and green isn't too useful in pre-industrial societies - sure, you want to know if the sky is light or dark, but that's easier to cover by calling it either "white" or "grue".

[–] semisimian@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago

There is a game where you try to guess the paint color after reading the name that some paint brand has used. Here: https://colorguesser.com/