No Stupid Questions

I'm a very fluid person. So I think I have great inside in the differences between genders and sexualities in loneliness.

A lot of it have to do with "be approached".

As a woman presenting person a get approached a lot, a lot of people I don't know want to talk with me. It's ridiculously easy to make new acquaintances and friends. Everyone wants to talk and be around you.

As a male presenting person I also get approached a lot when I'm in "gay spaces". Again it's impossible to be alone unless I voluntarily would want to.

Yes, these two have the handicap that a lot of approaches are "sex related" of by people wanting sex. But not all of them, among so much approaches there's always some that doesn't just want sex.

Then, as a male presenting person in not gay spaces and even more so in straight spaces. I don't get approached, never, at all. Zero people talk to me just because they want to be near me. If I want to meet somebody I always have to be the one initiating the approach.

In my experience this is the root of the issue. And the experience that most people complaining about "male loneliness" are talking about.

There are other type of loneliness. As a Queer I'm quite familiar with loneliness related to being different, and people literally hating you for what you are, or not accepting you. But that's a different thing. The male loneliness is that feeling of having the burden of all your relationships in your shoulders, knowing that if you don't go after people people won't ever go after you. And that can be devastating with time. Because your self worth get tanked, specially if you are introvert and have a hard time approaching people.

I suppose it won't end until it get normalized to approach cis men the same way it's normalized in the other situations I talked about. The reason of why people don't approach cis men as easy can be discussed, I get that there's a fear/danger factor in approaching a cis male, specially after being approached by so many menacing people in your life. But still, I do think the root of the issue is that. And there's also de commodity of knowing that you don't need to approach a cis man because some will approach to you regardless, so you don't even need to try. I'm the first guilty of it. I don't approach men either, I always wait for them to approach me, because I know they will, so why bother approaching? I suppose there's a great imbalance. Maybe if men would go into strike and refuse to approach people the balance would be restored, who knows.

Oh my god STOP WITH THE GENDER DEBATES

It's socially acceptable to hate and be biased against men. Especially white men, and especially working-class white men.

It's not so socially acceptable to hate on wealthy white men. The point is you have to become a wealthy white guy, or get bent.

You will also notice the discussion is frame that any man who isn't independently wealthy is a failure at life and undeserving of friendship/love. The advice is always 'get rich and get fit' as if that is the solution to your loneliness. It isn't.

FWIW I never had issue with romance/friends most of my life. But I have had them the past 5 or so years. I'm a middle-class white guy and my social interactions are falling apart. Esp when people find out I don't fit the archetype of 'rich white guy'. I've had so many people be friendly to me and then they find out I don't own a home/drive expensive car/etc and they immediately stop interacting with me, because all they want from me is money. I've also been accuse of various forms of bigotry more in the past few years when previously I never dealt with that ever in my life.

I think it's mostly just the ill-affects of social media and people's warped expectations. I know a lot of people living good lives... men and women both, but they always depressed and angry because they aren't millionaires. And frankly I find that attitude alienating and it also makes me want to isolate, since so much of what new people I meet talk about is their anger at not being wealthy. And if you ever question this or suggest maybe life isn't so bad? Well you're clearly a bigoted proto Nazi...

It wasn't like this 5-10 years ago. I feel like I got my first taste of 'men are awful' social media fueled BS in the 2010s. Now it feels like that's just he default belief of most people. It's really hard for me to find a lady romantic or unromantic, who just wants to constantly shit on men generally. And to find men who also don't shit on other men. And everyone where i live is in this weird scramble to distance themselves from whiteness and masculinity.

For me, I am feeling less and less lonely the more I am alone. Mostly because my perspective isn't the same as most people's. I am very happy and comfortable and appreciative and that doesn't vibe in a world full of very bitter people who think if you don't subscribe to theri flavor of bitterness, you're a traitor. I recently bailed on some of my volunteer/community orgs because they have been consumed by judgemental nasty people and they were making me depressed being around people who just want to be miserable and pissy all the time and blame white men for their own personal failings. My favorite is the gender-skeptical types working in low-wage jobs and being angry at 'white men' for preventing them from having stable jobs... but the truth is these people are totally unreliable and would be horrible at professional work. They are their own worst enemy.

There's basically a lot of modern "feminists" who have decided that two wrongs make a right.

It's good that women feel comfortable expressing themselves and trying to dismantle the patriarchy since it hurts us all. But many of them don't stop there and end up crossing the line into misandry and blind hatred of men.

This results in these "feminists" saying some pretty bigoted shit like "white men can't experience racism and sexism" as well as harassing men for seeking support.

This group mocks the male loneliness epidemic out of spite like other bigot groups.

Cis man here.

It's an issue. It comes in lots of different colors and flavors but it all stems from social issues.

There's lots of reasons, some men were never taught about social relationships, men tend to generally be less interested in social interaction thus giving them less experience, some men are ostracized when talking about their social struggles, and these are on top of preexisting environmental factors and preexisting mental conditions.

At this point it's important to say: it's not a contest for genders. Trans people have it hard, nb people have it hard women have it hard. It's just that this is one of the rare times men's struggles are not addressed properly.

I can tell you I probably have about 50 men in my life that I ko and wo are nice but if I had to talk to a man about my struggles socially, there are 2 men.

Now couple this with the fact 90% of men I had deeper conversations with told me they are struggling with depression and some of them having suicidal ideations, it is fair to assume we have a problem.

For me, the depression is always exacerbated by social isolation. It makes sense - not getting some feedback from other people can get you into crazy headspaces and there are thinking patterms that literally make you hurt yourself just to make it stop.

There's another aspect: we are social creatures and as soon as you don't get enough "social exposure" it's harder to learn social cues and "get the vibe", and other people notice. So the more you isolate, the harder preceding social interaction become and the harder it is, which in turn incentivizes isolating. A vicious cycle.

Now not everyone has these issues and I would never say that it's the most important issue in our current society but every time I hear suicide statistics by gender it really puts into perspective that we should get to know those people who we have failed.

One thing I also wanna address is the idea that "men are never taught how to socialize", because I think it implies a lot of things. First, I'm sure a lot of men are not, but a good number of men are. I was for example. It didn't help, but that was never the issue for me. Second, it implies men want to be taught. I spoke to a group of 2 men and 2 women with mental disabilities about if they ever considered complete social isolation. The men said yes and the women said no. I think this is really significant and can give insight into why this is affecting men more than other genders. I would infer from this that women always see the benefit in social interaction, and men pursue social interactions rather as a means to an end. This might be a stretch but this supported by other observations of friends and family.

This topic is really important and I hope it gets talked about more - for the benefit of everyone who wants to see people become happier. The men affected by loneliness, as well as the people who deal with them.

Some is valid. Men aren't taught how to make and maintain emotionally open friendships, with men or women. It's seen as weak or weird to cry on front of your bros when you're sad. This leads to loneliness. This is real.

Some is not valid. Men claiming that they're not getting laid and it's women's fault is bullshit. Or that women have impossibly high standards and are gold diggers. It's nonsense.

The problem is that the "women hating incels" have coopted the term, and their garbage deserves to be mocked.

When people have created a narrative that "white x y z men" are responsible for all the evil in the world (I'm exagerating, but you get my drift), it creates a very difficult situation when those people are facing some serious difficulties. The intellectually lazy thing to do in that case is to brush it off or minimize it, like in the ways you've described. And unfortunately, that's the route those same people will take, since identity politics are intellectually lazy (and lacking compassion, but that's another story).

The unfortunate part of it is that the right has taken advantage of that wide open flank, which is one main reasons we're in this current clusterfuck.