this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2025

158 points (98.8% liked)

OpenChristian

144 readers

7 users here now

(Formerly Lemm.ee)

This is a community for progressive Christians and friends to discuss our faith, support each other, and share inspiration for our spiritual journeys.

We seek God's message of Peace, Love, and Grace through following the Spirit of Christ.

OpenChristian Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/s/K3NwAgNj2a

OpenChristian Discord Server: https://discord.com/invite/KwyUcXv

LGBT Discord Server: https://discord.com/invite/e8HXnzV

Wiki: https://reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/w/index

FAQ: [https://reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/w/faq]

[Lemmy mirror of FAQ] https://lemmy.world/post/32102984

Online Resources: https://reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/w/onlineresources

Community Rules

No bigotry or oppressive rhetoric.

All misogyny, racism, antisemitism, LGBTQ+phobia, etc. will result in removal and a permanent ban. This includes commenting that LGBTQ¢+ love or relationships are sinful. Be aware that using “Pharisee” as a negative slur is considered anti-Semitic.

1b. Side B folks are welcome, but follow Rule 1. If you are a Side B Christian, please respect Rule 1 above, but know that you belong here and we want you to participate.

Do not promote oppressive/harmful ideology.

This includes all attempts to promote or normalise hate, shame, or fear within Christianity (e.g. purity culture, scaremongering against gender-transitioning, “complementarianism’”, or “demonic” attacks).

No sectarianism.

Legitimate criticism of other Christians/Faiths is allowed but refrain from prejudice against entire denominations/groups, and against other religions (e.g. Islamophobia).

No disparaging Christianity

This is primarily a supportive space for anyone who identifies as Christian. While everyone is welcome to participate we ask that no one disparages Christianity.

Be respectful and polite.

No personal attacks or accusations, harassment, misrepresentation of others, or insults. This also includes forcing debate, gatekeeping, and denying the validity of another's faith.

Don't be a Troll, or a Jerk.

Don't concern Troll, play Devil's Advocate, or pretend to be confused when you really just want to start a debate. This Rule will be interpreted at the moderators’ discretion.

No spamming or proselytizing

Don't post here if you're mass posting to other Communities. Don't post here for self-promotion unless it's particularly relevant to this subreddit. This is not your soapbox, and we are not here for you to preach at us. If you want to promote your media please ask permission from the mods.

Be sensitive about linking to triggering content.

Because we want this space to be as safe as possible, we discourage posting images or links to oppressive rhetoric from others. However, we do understand that venting is important sometimes. If you must post something potentially triggering, mark it nsfw or use spoiler tags, and censor any identifying information.

Discussion of the ongoing israeli-Palestinian conflict is temporarily prohibited.

This topic has proven to be too divisive to discuss without consistently violating this Community’s rules. In order to maintain peace and to continue supporting one another, content regarding the ongoing Israel-Palestinian conflict is not permitted at this time.

Notice:

OpenChristian is inclusive, open and welcoming of all. We are LGBTQ+ affirming, but we welcome any who have chosen celibacy, as long as you respect Rule 1.

Do not post or comment about how you believe homosexuality is a sin.

We have heard this a thousand times, and you have nothing new to contribute to the conversation.

If you do this, you will be banned.

Please note that as a progressive Christian community, we are explicitly followers of Christ, as well as LGBTQ+ affirming and egalitarian.

Friends are very welcome to participate, no matter what you believe.

But this is not the place for questioning or debating these positions.

founded 3 months ago

MODERATORS

Pacrat173@lemmy.world

Teknevra@lemmy.ca

Maeve@kbin.earth

RicoPeru@lemmy.blahaj.zone

158

Pope Leo XIV accepts LGBTQ inclusion in Catholic Church (www.yahoo.com)

submitted 4 days ago by Pacrat173@lemmy.world to c/open_christian@lemmy.ca

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 29 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

This article's headline is fairly misleading but essentially what is being said here is that Leo will maintain the status quo that was established under Francis, which was essentially that the Catholic Church still disapproves of homosexuality, but is willing to turn a blind eye to it in countries where the general culture is more accepting of LGBT people. In essence, it's a balancing act because the Catholic Church, despite being so historically tied to European identity and culture, is increasingly a non-European institution, with almost all growth in Catholic membership and clergy coming from outside of Europe, and the non-European clergy are typically much more hard line on LGBT issues than the European leadership and power base of the Church. There is also the fundamental issue that almost all of the people in charge legitimately believe that God has forbidden homosexuality and that it is a serious sin to have sex with someone of the same sex, and that there is no difference between biological sex and gender. The question is not about "Does the Catholic Church approve of this?" It is "How much of this are we willing to ignore to keep the church from splitting in a time where it is already in decline?" That may seem odd, but the long term success of the Catholic Church, and the reason it has been able to survive for nearly 2000 years all across the world, is due in large part to their willingness to turn a blind eye to behaviors they consider sinful to keep people in the church.

TL;DR- the Catholic Church isn't cool with LGBT people now, it's just a political tightrope the Pope has to walk in the modern Church.

[–] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Catching up with the member base and following a more open Christian vision instead of bigotry? Sounds good.

[–] AlpacaChariot@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Member base in which country? There are plenty of bigoted Catholics around the world.

This is a good thing though, slow progress is still progress.

[–] stickly@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A lot of people don't understand that Catholicism is secretly 10 different denominations in a trench coat. It's overdue for another schism; the more progressive end keeps pushing for changes to bring back lapsed/excluded members while the reactionary right keeps ramping up resistance.

[–] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago

Well, or just convert to e.g. protestantism (I am seriously considering that due to various reasons).
No new Schism needed if the outcomes of the previous one is still good :-)

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Call me cynical, but I believe it's just a ploy to get/keep their #s, and thus their donations and power up.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Like the last pope, people will just claim he’s not a real pope.

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Some people will, some people willn't.

Support the willn't.

[–] Pacrat173@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Sedevacantism is a group like that

This video starting at 19:22 discusses them. The title of the video kinda gives away a bit about them.

[–] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 days ago

That's a valid point, I sadly might be prejudiced here by my upbringing.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Hahaha, that open-minded Catholic base, eh?

[–] phonics@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (4 children)

im all for this obviously. but isnt the fact that it wasnt included before just proving its all just made up and political?

like pope is closest to god. did god change its mind?

whats stopping the next pope from switching back?

im not catholic but if i was id have a crisis of faith over this kind of thing.

[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

This is a very complicated question but essentially he didn't change anything, really. He's just saying that the stuff Francis did will stay, and what Francis did was only "progressive" when viewed through the lens of a nearly 2000 year old institution whose views haven't really changed much in that time. The current stance of the Catholic Church on homosexuality that was developed under Francis is pretty much that they're willing to look past some things that they consider to be sins in order to keep the church together. A lot of care and thought goes into crafting official papal decrees (which are written on very precise technical language, essentially Catholic legalese) to ensure that they align with already established doctrine. If a Pope just said "BTW we're totally cool with homosexuality now" he would be deposed somehow and his decrees deemed invalid for breaking with established doctrine

[–] OliveMoon@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

“did god change its mind?” Well said…

[–] Pacrat173@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The church have altered their policies before.

The Middle Ages saw indulgences being sold, and only a few decades ago were ideas like evolution more widely accepted within the church.

While today the church itself still has the same policy on homosexuality, Pope Francis started reforms on being more accepting and supportive of the LGBTQ community, supporting civil unions, allowing gay preachers to continue to preach, etc.

Pope Leo XIV is seemingly continuing this gradual change in attitude towards the community towards a more positive light.

Only time will tell what happens next, but I hope they continue to move with the times.

[–] phonics@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

its interesting right? i suppose they could argue giving full support for the right things may be too freeing for the people initially or something, so they are in theory easing people into love slowly changing the minds of thr populous over time. but pretty sure Jesus just preached love from the beginning so its a mute point i feel.

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Moot* but yeah, I agree. If religion was based purely on fact, or anything resembling reality, it wouldn't need to change. But since it's a construct made out of a desire to understand things, it has to change. Especially with the advent of science. Since science progresses, religion must as well or they'll lose everybody eventually. Personally, I don't see this as anything but a way to shore up their numbers, like when recruitment is down in the military, they start accepting people that they ordinarily wouldn't.

[–] phonics@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

oh yeah moot. thnx.

[–] Pacrat173@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

As much as I hate to say it, personal opinions of the time and politics of the time were big influences in the church in the past, even more than today. We’re a lot more accepting as a society today than we were in the past. I hope the church makes the right choice and keeps on its path of improving its relations with LGBTQ community and keeps to the word of love thy neighbor because its felt like it’s been forgotten at times.

[–] Rainbowblite@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

It doesn't sound like he changed the biblical rules, just opened the doors a bit. So LGTBQ+ people might still go to hell (according to Catholics) but they can go to church and do whatever they do.

The church can rewrite any of the rules though. If it is official, they call it dogma. They consider it a revelation and it becomes a new rule.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma_in_the_Catholic_Church

[–] Pacrat173@lemmy.world 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I’m personally not a Catholic and I know they’ve done harm to many people before but the pope is an important figure in the religious world. Even steps as small as this can help many many people.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 3 days ago

Imo, this is as huge as John Paul affirming evolution.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Cookie granted.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I could never go back unless my 3 demands are met: gay marriage, female ordination, Trans recognition.

Mind you I'm happily pagan now, but even if that changed those are why I left catholicism and half measures wouldn't've been enough to keep me

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Pagan? Like legit believe in pagan gods? I'm an atheist but I use paganism to piss off christians.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Paganism both neo and reconstructionist are minor religions practiced in the modern day with an incredible variety to them. My lsd inspired version shouldn't be taken as the default by any means but yeah. I once protested alongside an odinist. Earth devotion is very pumpkin spice pagan, but for good reason we're quite certain earth exists.

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Lol not at your beliefs, but that last sentence caused me a chuckle because I talked to a guy at work last night, whom before-which I'd never met. Honestly dude sounded drunk AF, but he was a flat earther trying to explain how he only understands things he can see in front of him. Like the earth is flat because the pond by his house looks flat. But then he said that earth is "probably" real. I kinda felt like a dick because I kept laughing at everything he said. He was a nice guy, just... Profoundly stupid. It was like I was having a conversation with someone out of time. Yes, earth definitely exists, even if you subscribe to the idea of projection on the walls of a black hole. Or a simulation, even if we are a simulation, as far as we're concerned, earth exists and is fact. Again, I don't mean to compare your beliefs with his, but I am just interested how you left a religion of one God, and went on to believe in many gods.

I think I was like, 7 or 8 when I started reading the Bible, mostly as a way to convince myself it was real. I was like 6 or so when I started questioning my "faith". I definitely remember believing in Santa longer than I believed in God. So I started reading the Bible to try to push myself back in, but by the time I finished it, I was more convinced than ever that it was bullshit. It took me almost to my 10th birthday to finish that fucking thing. By then I had zero doubt in my mind that it was all make-believe. Sure, some cities and people were probably real. But to me it was like saying the ninja turtles were at the battle of Gettysburg. If this sounds offensive to you, I'm sorry, I truly don't mean it to be.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

There are enough rationalists online that I don't even assert that me thinking is definitive proof of my existence lest discount Descartes attempt to argue with my predominantly empirical approach to material reality.

But religion is for non material reality and I find it helpful so I picked one that spoke to me and whose deeper truths helped me. Worst case scenario I'm pissing off a god I wasn't going to believe in anyways. I was a cringy atheist for a while when I left Christianity. And I moved into my beliefs with the aforementioned psychedelics and through slowly adopting parts that helped without being too disagreable. Saying a little prayer when I'm stressed helps though. Keeping the year wheel and celebrating the solstices and equinoxes and the midpoints and meditating on the seasons helps ground me to time. Telling the earth how beautiful her forests and frosts are helps me appreciate the world around me. My polytheism is a lot closer to the Hindu style of divided pantheism.

Just as I'm sure the Christians here feel, religion is like any other moral and social structure. It should be helping you live a happier and better life and making you a better person. If it's doing that it's good. But any belief can be a cudgel in the right hands.

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Hey, no judgement here. If it helps you and makes you a better person, cool. I just saw it all as magic.

And yeah if a Christian actually believes in the teachings of Jesus, more power to em. But so so many pick and choose what they want to believe in from it and most prefer to ignore what they don't like that the whole thing gives me a bad taste in my mouth.

And that Includes other religions. Muhammad was a child molester, Buddha specifically said he shouldn't be a god or idol but they worshipped as such anyway.