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Once upon a time, I set up my phone so I didn't need to look at it: it was basically e-ink and audiobooks.
Then I started adding games and learning apps back (I don't remember why), and now I feel like I'm not going back until e-ink reaches parity with smartphones (refresh rate, cell coverage, near-current OS).
I will switch to a dumb phone or even a pager for sms and phone calls the day i can offload all the rest to a VR headset i wear all day everyday XD
Dumbphones are ridiculously insecure, and they only support SMS communications which don't have any end-to-end encryption.
I hadn't even thought of it from this angle. That's a hard stop for me right there.
Any flip phone you can basically hook up to bitpim or a cellebrite or whatever and copy its entire contents in a matter of seconds. There's no challenge. There's no security whatsoever.
I for one would go flip from Japan, Korean, manufactured phone. That could tether, mini tablet for maps or email or lemmy
I estimate that 60% of my phone use is for audiobooks while driving.
navigation, and living in a country where it's really hard to find books
Web browser. SMS and calling are completely useless. I need a phone so I can access the internet outside. I dont want a dumb 20 year old phone I want a modern phone without the pointless bullshit.
My ideal phone would have a small screen, replaceable battery, shit camera, shit speakers, 5G, two USB C slots and be able to run android apps and be cheap
Can I ask how old you are OP? A range is fine
Maybe not a dumb phone but I would love to use a phone with an e-ink screen. I know there are some projects about this or some Chinese phones but I haven't met an e-ink phone that I can install a custom ROM yet.
That would solve most of the issues others have brought up. It's probably fast enough for navigation and definitely fast enough for banking, MFA, RCS/Signal, etc..
Signal.
And soon Veilid
MFA & Authenticator apps
All I really need is calls, sms, a solid browser and some more robost messaging apps like signal and matrix/element - I'm a prime candidate for PostmarketOS if we ever get a stable piece of hardware. I have an old oneplus 6 that I've played with it on, its so close. If a flip phone could master that today, sure
I do use tap to pay, but meh I dont think I would miss it and android auto in my car could easily just be a bluetooth audio connection
Really only a handful of things:
navigation while traveling - don't need it much, if at all at home, but I travel often enough for work that losing that capability would be painful.
MFA - authenticator apps are the most convenient way to do MFA. SMS/email are terrible options for this and should only be used if there is absolutely no other option.
Access to the internet while away from home, both while traveling and while out and about
Music playback in the car
Communication - most of my friends don't use SMS/voice to talk, instead preferring Discord or Signal
Basically everything else I do on my phone could be done from a more proper computer with minimal inconvenience.
A flip phone/dumbphone would sort of be mutually exclusive with my use case. I use my smartphone nearly exclusively as a lightweight mobile computer for web browsing, SSHing into my server, and messaging over internet (not SMS). I rarely use the "phone" features of my phone, i.e. phone calls and SMS. So I'd be losing out over the features I do use, in favour of features I don't use.
If you're being distracted by your phone and a dumbphone works for you, good on you. I think most people are like me and use their phones as a small mobile computer rather than a phone though, in which case distractions are best handled with one of the many apps/browser add-ons/etc that block websites or apps.
I thought about switching, but instead I uninstalled social media apps and started using it more like an e-reader/MP3 player/messenger. It's worked pretty well! Been reading a ton in the last year. I may be addicted to fanfiction now though.
My understanding is that flip phones only do calls and sms ?
So I never call or text.. Only thing I use is an XMPP client, web browser, youtube music (until I replace that with selfhosted) and would use maps (but right now I broke the GPS on my phone so not that ...)
So I don't think I could use a flip phone, mostly because none of these applications except maybe music work on a flip phone ? Webbrowser needs a full sized screen...
My "smart" phone is rarely used as a telephone. It's set to silent, all notifications turned off, blocks unknown numbers, transcribes voicemail and spends most of the day as a window to the world.
I'm not sure what, if anything, a "dumb" phone would add to my life, except more interruption, more administration to keep contacts up to date, and yet another device to charge and maintain.
presumably having a dumb phone that only does calls and maybe texts can help you stay in contact / reachable but without the possible distractions of the phone itself.
For me, my watch does this job if I need that.
what would need to change for you to actually give a flip phone a try?
For me to start using my phone as the main way of my computing needs and entertainment needs. Which I don't. I only use it to send messages and read when my laptop is not in my hands. So I essentially have a not-so-smartphone, not-so-dumbphone.
I tried a lot of things to keep my phone/screen usage down.l, including a dump phone. One day I got this brilliant idea to shut my phone off. That was way more efficient than any of the tricks I tried. When I need it for something I turn it on. I've since removed most fun apps from the thing.
I still have one game that I play, Lemmy, RSS and web browsers. Apart from those it's mostly a bureaucracy machine with messaging, email, banking, MFA, work stuff, maps, lots of apps for managing tickets (it's actually ridiculous), life trackers for some board games. Music, audiobooks and podcasts.
The smart phone is a convenient device that makes my life easier. I don't whis to handicap myself when I can just turn the phone off instead. I also like to leave the phone at home if for instance I'm going to a party at a well known location.
Not at all. It's really hard to live without the practical features of a smartphone, like web browsing and maps. What I need is privacy, not to throw it all away for a dumbphone.
I believe a lot of the benefits you claim dumbphones provide are all caused by abandoning social media. There's nothing wrong with technology, it's just social media. You don't need to use a dumbphone just to escape social media.
Same. My "smartphone" usage is about 10% phone, 10% SMS service, 10% camera, 5% flashlight, 10% GPS + Map tool, 15% e-mail, and 40% web browser... I carried a pretty capable flip phone from 2006-2013, the things I liked best about it were its longevity and its long battery life (up to a week on standby, 3-4 days even with normal usage.) However, even upgraded with GPS capability, the small screen would have made for a poor map experience, and e-mail and web browser were just out of its practical reach.
Stop browsing social media, maybe install Tor if you want that level of privacy - Smartphones can do that...
I am more curious about this section:
bureaucracy or banking apps force me to use it
Does it actually happen? How so? I never had any bank or anything else force me to use a phone, so I am having hard time imagining that. So I am genuinely curious about this portion of your message.
2 factor authentication via app/texting I'd imagine.
An authenticator app is better than basically anything but a physical token / key generator, but the apps are more universally supported. No one is probably going to spoof your phone number to get into your accounts.... But doesn't hurt to me more secure about it anyway.
I see. Thank you.
I am using a YubiKey for those (with a desktop authenticator app). Oddly enough, I do that because I do not trust Android/iPhone to stay secure. I actually trust them even less than a plain old SMS-based auth.
The benefits of having a full-featured computer in my pocket are just too many for me to ditch it permanently if I have a choice. While it's certainly able to distract me if I let it, I don't think I've ever had it disrupt my sleep (aside from late night phone calls).
I think it's better for most (and potentially easier) to keep to the smartphone and just better control the applications that are on it and the notifications that they raise to make sure it isn't overly distracting you. This may require disabling certain pre-installed apps (e.g. Facebook is one I always disable and just interact with via browser when I want to). Another pattern to follow is adding barriers to the things that distract you most so it takes a little more effort to interact with your distractions. Hank Green's Focus Friend app that got popular recently is an example of that -- placing an emotional barrier on getting distracted when you need to focus.
But ultimately, we all need to do what's best for ourselves. Everyone's suceptibility to distraction is different and if a dumbphone is what works best for you, then by all means, go with that for as long as it's useful.
Google maps navigation, web browsing, YouTube, music streaming, WhatsApp, email, social media apps for entertainment, news apps, notes app, to do app, public transit app, ebook and audiobook apps, utility apps, good camera, good screen, good speakers. If I consider all this there is just no way to go back to the old school flip phones or the candy at phones with the T9 keypad for me, best thing I can do is hide all the apps I don't want to be distracted by, put app locks on the addictive ones and just be mindful of the time I spend on my phone and figure out other ways to spend my time like dedicated ebook readers or paper books and other activities
I think so too, there are so many useful tools on a phone, nobody has to use social media and apps that have a bad influence instead of just being practical and useful.
I have a minimalistic home screen with essential apps and all else is in folders for ex.
I’ve lived through the cell phone invention, to flip phones, to smartphones. They were terrible back then and I doubt that’s changed now.
Now, I do understand the reason why you moved back to one. For me, I just got aggressive about notifications and turned off most of them. I stopped social media tied to friends and family and am selective about what I’m on and for how long. Takes more personal willpower (or whatever) but you do get used to it in the long run and feel better.
I personally dont think you need to switch to a dumb phone to get those benefits, smartphones themselves arent what's causing issues its what you're using. You want less distraction just stop using those apps or turn off push notifications.
Right, absolutely. I use almost no apps for anything, I just use my phone’s browser for the web sites I want, and have a specific few non-privacy-invasive apps for other things (Voyager for here, Signal for messaging, password manager, etc) and have zero reason I would ever want to give up that functionality to do what, make CALLS? I don’t do that shit. Text message? Nah.
I wholeheartedly agree with this perspective.
I started on a privacy journey because I didn't like that I'm being tracked (by basically everybody) and feel that the technology that I pay for should be service to me, not me as a service to it (and its related parties).
Anyways, along the way I did a few things. Namely, I turned off mail notifications (this was an inadvertent feature since my mail service couldn't send notifications without google services that I removed). I also removed my sim and use data only via a hotspot, to which I don't always have on. These sound like crazy things, and admittedly they aren't for everyone, but the resulting mental shifts are exactly to this point.
Just because I have a device that let's me be available to anybody in any place at any time, doesn't mean I should be, or even need to be, available unless I want to be.
Now I protect my time, and the mental clarity that comes with it. I never was a doom scroller, but even now that concept is even more reduced. The phone is my tool, and I use when needed.
I can very much agree with this. Like getting rid of Instagram and Tiktok has done a lot to help time not disappear in the same way.
No way. Life is way better with smart phones. Tap to pay, maps, always having a camera, always having my notes, working as a mobile hotspot, controlling my home security system. 25 other things.
This stuff used to be so much harder. I’m not going back.
I will freely admit there are some dangerous addictive and invasive aspects to it also. I’m ruthless about what apps I will grant permissions to. And I don’t browse the App Store getting tempted by their promises.
I think the appeal of our phones not having to be a computer and not needing all the same rigor and paranoia and extra steps of a computer was really exciting. But it hasn’t turned out to be true. So now I treat it like a computer and approach everything with that level of skepticism. And also treat it like the gateway to capitalism that it is and I am skeptical of anything that’s trying to take my data or money. I think with the right attitude it’s a net positive device in my life
treating your phone like a computer definitely is the way to go. because it is!
my Vivo X100s Pro is a magnitude more powerful than the first hands-me-down laptop I have.
you couldn't pay me to go backwards in time, sorry!
see I was around before the age of the smartphone. growing up, I thought my cassette Walkman was the most revolutionary thing ever. and when PDAs were new, I would dreaammm about everything being on one electronic device.
smart phones have given me a freedom that younger me never had.
i no longer need to carry a notebook/memobook around, because I have powerful software on my phone that not only let's me note-take, but index and SEARCH my own notes. from my pocket.
i don't need to carry the 3 novels im reading at the moment because they're on the ereader app in my pocket.
contacts, games, all my news sources, photos, videos, all my media.
to me, this is still revolutionary tech and it has only improved my life
i think we are seeing a rise now of adults who were raised as iPad kids who never had to carry all their shit around the way us older individuals have. so they naturally would want to get away from it because they've known no different and they never had to live another way before that point.
its an understandable mentality from that one standpoint. but no, I will never give up my smart phone. i understand the reasons for those that do, but some of us don't really want to go backwards.
Headphone jack. I just can't say this enough, despite the fact I have apple's wireless earbuds (of some clique name) in my pocket at this very second. Headphone jack.
Don't ask for it for yourself. Ask for it for the d-bag sharing music of some guy grunting over a drum track on the bus. We need to save him from the damage to his reputation when his friends remind him they knew he listened to such trash later when he needs to deny it.
Doesn't really make much sense for me to switch to a flip phone unless it was specifically built for privacy/security. SMS and regular voice calls are insecure, it likely could connect to fake cell towers uninhibited, it likely doesn't have hardware switches to disconnect various features e.g. modem, microphone, or camera.
Availability. There fucking aren't any.
All of that, plus the benefits of having a good pocket camera to carry around - spontaneous photography is my thing and having a good camera phone solves that equation nicely.
And before anyone says "get a real camera", I have real cameras and there's no way they can be carried in my pocket the same way a smartphone does lol. That and the smaller they get, the further image quality worsens to the point where you might just use a (good camera) phone instead.
I grew up with dumb phones, and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to using them - they suck!
Who even makes phone calls today? Not me. I need a device that does everything but phone calls more than I need a device that only does voice.
2FA app. 2FA via SMS is incredibly insecure.
Map and translation apps a close second.
