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Realistically, this game's got bigger problems than what its DLC strategy is.
I'm just waiting for the reviews to see if it's another Redfall
From the gameplay footage, it looks like a studio that's only ever made walking simulators before is making their take on Dishonored. Maybe that'll be pretty good, but I'd be surprised. What it certainly isn't is an RPG that's anything like Bloodlines 1, lol.
That's largely what the pre release reviewers said, too. It's light on RPG elements but feels like Dishonored. They didn't say it was bad, just unexpected and a different kind of game than the first.
It’s just wild to me that a game straight out of a TTRPG is “light on RPG elements”.
Like, what’s left of Vampire without the RPG elements?
The vampires, probably.
If there's no roleplay, it's just a bunch of people with big teeth.
Well, some of them anyway. Half are still missing.
But what constitutes "RPG elements?" Because most of the time that seems to mean "crunchy stats", which has absolutely nothing to do with "Roleplaying." I've seen Call of Duty described as having "RPG elements" because you unlock perks.
Your average visual novel is more of a roleplay experience than half the CRPGs I've played. If reviewers mean "There's very little player choice or input and you don't really get to feel like you're embodying a character" then yeah, that's a valid criticism. If their complaint is that they didn't get to put enough dots next to things, I'm not really sure how that's a problem.
I've followed this probably closer than the average gamer, but I still wouldn't say I've followed it very closely.
The sense I get is that once TCR took it over, they moved the game in a direction that allows less personalisation in terms of roleplay. You're no longer playing some newly-embraced nobody, you're playing a hundred-year-old character with a very specific backstory. But it's honestly still not completely clear. I'll be interested to see feedback from people after its release.
If it has a solid enough story, I'm probably fine with it. If you've ever played the TTRPG of Vampire, you probably know that it has always been the weakest point of the game, while the lore and stories of that world have always been the highlight.
It is yet another of these inner companion-along-for-the-ride games. Likely with the annoying snark and flippancy that goes with these backseat exposition-dumping secondary characters. Let's say I'm doubtful of the results.
Oh, I'm doubtful for sure. But being light on RPG elements, especially of the source material elements, is not actually a concern for me. I'm much more worried about their plot direction. But... Who knows, it might be good. I'll wait for the reviews and see what's up.
It’s just wild to me that a game straight out of a TTRPG is “light on RPG elements”.
Character stats is just something DnD came up with and everyone goes "character stats = RPG". DnD had character stats because Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson all played table top war games before creating DnD.
Some of my favorite TTRPGs, don't have character stats; looking at you Under the Autumn Strangely, Dread, 10 Candles, For the Queen, and that one game were I play tested characters playing Truth or Dare.
At the end of the day, playing a TTRPG is about telling a story. If the Chinese Room can tell a great story with light character customization. I will take that.
Dread is legitimately one of the best horror RPGs ever created.
For those who don't know, it's a game of "Final girl" / "Cabin in the woods" style horror where terrible things happen to a group of people. The only mechanic the game has is a Jenga tower. Every time you want to do a risky action, you pull a brick. If the tower falls, something really bad happens. No other game has ever quite created such a perfect feeling of steadily mounting tension and... well... dread.
Ok that’s fucking brilliant - I’m looking up this game
@Voroxpete @ShaggySnacks I can’t find it on steam. There are dozens of dread something games :(
It's a tabletop RPG, not a video game.
@Voroxpete oohh haha ok that makes much more sense. I was picturing a 3d jenga in a video game that’d pop up every once in a while 😅
Well now I kind of want to see that.
I don’t think I follow. Are you thinking that I’m saying Vampire needs character stats? Because I’m not.
I just think a game based on a TTRPG—a concept built around putting role playing first and foremost—should probably be pretty strong on the role playing aspect.
pre release reviewers said, too. It’s light on RPG elements
In that context, "RPG elements" means stats and mechanics based on stats. Not roleplaying
My brother in Christ, you're the only one who even mentioned character stats.
Doesn't VTM, the ttrpg the game is based on, use character stats? I see nothing wrong with expecting the videogame to have similar gameplay mechanics to the ttrpg its based on. Especially if the first game did that.
ten candles is still my favorite ttrpg, followed closely by fiasco.
I was expecting an (action-oriented) RPG and it's a stealth game instead 🫤 I'm gonna "wish-unlist" it 😞
Mind elaborating/telling me the problems? Ive been wanting to try the game but the dlc crap made me wait at least until the clans were added to base lol
If you've played the first game, watch their video demo of some gameplay. They're just not even similar. It's bold to call this a sequel for how little they have in common.
I love VTMB, but the gameplay was never the highlight, it was always the writing. If the story and characters are well written and it ties into VTMB1 somehow, I'll consider the title justified. The writing is a pretty high bar, though.
I don't consider it so much as the combat should be better or the writing should be good, but the fact that it's just a very different style of game altogether. There will be nothing like the character sheet from the first game in this new one, I'll wager, nor the RPG mechanics that go along with that. Making that kind of game is even further outside the wheelhouse of the developer making this new one, so it would be an even taller order. It's not often that a sequel to a game changes genre or subgenre, but it's not usually a welcome change. There was only one game in the Zelda series like Zelda II, after all.
"After backlash," of course.
You heard it here first, folks. Businesses will try to fuck you over if they can get away with it.
It has nothing to do about keeping the lights on.
Everyone knows that.
But, at the very least we should be congratulatory on this - it's bad that clans were contained to DLC in the first place and Paradox needed a good kick, but since they've been pliable we should give them a pavlovian pat on the head.
If you leave no room for 'rehabilitation' there is no reason to try to do better.
First time? Paradox games are the definition of learned helplessness. This game will be a dlc shitfest in time, just like all of their other scammy games. They just learned to not announce it ahead of time with this IP.
"Sorry we couldn't get away with it" vibes
The publisher is paradox isn't it? They've done this with nearly all of their recent games.
The only difference is that the games they published are left to die after the backlash and the games developed in house continue to be developed but with a slightly less invasive dlc policy for a few months.
I'll wait. Experience shows that the next dick move will come soon after.
I have no problem at this point to wait another two or three years.
Very much so sorry we couldn't get away with it. This time.
They and other publishers will inevitably try this Capcom crap again so don't reward them with sales for "apologizing" for behavior that they shouldn't have done in the first place.
If the game is good I'll buy it, if it isn't I won't. Fuck everyone who had a say in the original dlc decision but I'm not gonna pass up on a decent title if they manage to deliver.
Okay the barest minimum possible has been achieved, now bring back hardsuit and make a game worthy of its sire.
Wow, great job team, now add more than the game from 2004, thx.