"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in unrelated arguments.
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You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
(regarding Drew DeVault's opinion piece on Hyprland and its conservative/fascist dev and toxic community)
It's not about right vs left. It's about totalitarianism vs pluralism.
Tankies: "Look, some like sweet shit-sauce, other like sour shit-sauce, but nobody is allowed to like sweet and sour sauce. For one thing, it has no shit in it!"
Drew DeVault is known for being a tankie? Are you sure about that? Afaik, he's a rather sensible kind of center-left.
Otoh, calling hyprland's developer or somebody like DHH fascists is a bit silly too.
What exactly did the hyperland devs and DHH guy even do anyway, and can you tell me without me having to read 35 links?
(Explanations are always just "they're nazis" with a bunch of links, which I'm sure have relevance, but I'm not going to some random site unless the juice is worth the squeeze and simply saying "them bad" doesn't entice enough.)
They are being wrong politically. I think Vaxry (the hyprland developer) opposed to some CoC in Freedesktop and was thus banned. Probably some other anti-woke stuff too. DHH has some pretty right-wing views (e.g. "London is not how I remember it anymore because there are too many foreigners" [paraphrased]) and used his blog to disseminate those views. Perhaps a bit ironically after loudly declaring that politics shouldn't be talked about at the workplace. I guess technically speaking his blog isn't the workplace.
Hardly cancel-worthy stuff even though I don't personally agree with a lot of them. But people are such snowflakes these days and at some point the FOSS community got so fundamental about certain opinions that Spanish Inquisition would look at them and say "Jesus Christ, bring it down a notch".
One small question, what is "CoC?" In my world it's a punk band turned dadrock lol.
That doesn't sound like the biggest deal from what I've heard so far though. I disagree with those views too (well tbh I've never even been in the country and it's not possible for me to "miss the old london" but ykwim haha), but I'm not gonna shoot my framework with an M4 like a case of bud light about it.
If I'm being honest I think the good that they're doing with the HW community right now and their (sometimes misplaced, sure) support for FOSS in general might, in my opinion, outweigh the bad done by them funding these specific projects/people* (*contingent on this being all it is). Like it'd be one thing if say they gave X laptops to ICE to help them out, but hyperland afaik has 10 users and I've never heard of DHH or omarchy or whatever until, ironicallly, this outrage gave it publicity. Hell I only previously knew about hyperland (and still don't actually understand what it is, idk I use KDE) because of people here on linux comms complaining that they're nazis, "no publicity is bad publicity" and such, it might actually be working in their favor.
These niche software devs that can easily be replaced by "using sway instead" pale in comparison imo to "one of the only two sustainable, modular, repairable laptop manufacturers in existence, the other being possibly exclusively German (idk their sales range, site is in German)." One of these is easily ignorable/replaceable, one is not, and I think I care more about furthering the right to repair than I do "these guys gave some money to a guy who said dumb shit on his blog that probably has 4 readers anyway."
what is “CoC?”
Code of Conduct, a set of instructions describing how people contributing to a project are expected to behave. It usually says "don't be an asshole" but some go deep into specifics what they mean by that.
Ah gotcha, well I guess I'd have to look into what that entails in particular to accurately judge that part, though I'm not a fan of codes of conduct in general tbh, excepting things like "please format X code like this" or something to ensure compatibility.
It's like how I don't think my job has the right to tell me a goddamn thing about what I can and can't do ~~at~~ (Freudian slip lmao, after*) work. They can suck it I'm gonna smoke weed and drink whiskey and I'll see you shitheads on monday, mind ya own business lol.
Things like:
Don't bring drama to dev channels,
don't bring transphobia to the projects' dev channels maintained by mostly trans devs
Are not as harmful as these "conservatives" would have you believe.
Nah that's fair for sure. "Dev channels" sounds a lot like "work" in this context, my job absolutely (imo) has the right to say "no transphobia at work." I don't smoke weed and drink whiskey at work either lol.
My problem with CoCs comes when they tell me not to do X outside of work as if they have any real authority (and as if I'd respect it if they did have any. Commit crimes that don't harm people today!)
Yeah, awful.systems has stupidly heavy handed moderation.
I like awful.systems, but their moderation can definitely be very weird and with a very passive-aggressive tone.
Libs talking about the far-right: "BuT WhaT AboUt The FaR LeFt?"
I think it’s worth mentioning both. Especially when bots and bad actors are trying to influence people on both sides of the aisle.
Many of the far-left views by bad actors getting pushed are pro-authoritarian, accelerationists. They want people on the left side of the aisle to be totally checked out of politics and they want to not change anything to help people in our current system.
Even though you can enact every single policy position they claim to care about inside of our current system, the bad actors do not care as they are not trying to help people.
I care what is being talked about if it’s stopping people from engaging in politics at all. Universal Basic Income, Universal Healthcare, and public housing for instance are three policy issues that can be tackled right now at the state level in blue states. People don’t need to be promoting a pro-collapse message, which could negatively impact millions of lives in the short and long run.
These bots and bad actors have been influencing people mostly behind the scenes. I don’t want the pendulum to swing back to the left, only to have a bunch of pro-authoritarians “on the left” to have radicalized a generation of young people believing they can’t accomplish their goals democratically. I want democracy, representation, and I want progressive policy that helps people.
The far-right bots are pushing their message to low information people online, trying to get those people to be sympathetic to their talking points or to check out from politics as well.
It's not far-right vs far-left, it's authoritarian vs libertarian. Conservatives and tankies are both on the authoritarian side and for someone who cares more about personal freedom than economics they're way more similar than anarchists & tankies or right-libertarians & conservatives from your perspective.
Tankies are just far-right for the other geopolitical camp. This isn't the take you think it is. I'd be considered far-left by the libs.