I understand that sometimes there's no reason to record until there is, but boy... A little context would be nice here.
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2025
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Is there anything ice coild do that would make you think less of them at this point?
Don't get me wrong, I think very poorly of ICE in the first place with everything they're doing. But if I'm going to show this to someone to try to change their mind that ICE is doing fucked up stuff, they're going to bring up a lot of unknowns, and rightly so.
I prefer to hammer the strong arguments (of which there are many) than trying to use the scary ones that may not hold up
I'm for strong arguments, but Americans in particular are not very honest about their values.
Showing their weakness and ineptitude will turn an american against them much more quickly and reliably than showing their evil, and facts just absolutely do not matter a single fuck to anyone whos not already on board.
"look at how evil ICE is in this video!"
"Well, was she blocking something? You know you can't just park in a driveway to block the way"
"I dunno"
"See, this is why ICE is perfectly fine and you're overreacting blah blah blah"
Personally, I'd rather bring up things like the masked/plainclothes thing being the norm and how it opens the door for anyone to abduct people who think they're ICE. Or how they're very clearly racially profiling in ways that affect American citizens.
Anyone who cares is already on side. Anyone who doesnt either cares about nothing or is committed to a delusion that will not be breached by anything as base as truth.
Ok, but if that's the case can we at least not reinforce their opinion by giving them an easy shot?
Honest question: Does one have the legal right to refuse to exit the vehicle? Under what circumstances can you refuse, and when can a cop legally force their way into the car and physically remove you?
I know all of this might be academic when we're talking about goons with a very loose understanding of such trivialities as "the law" and "the Constitution," but as an intellectual exercise I'd be interested in the answer.
Pennsylvania V Mimms says they can order you out of the car. There is another one dealing with the passenger. Mimms was based on officer safety concerns. But they take that as they can order you out for any reason and so far that has been allowed and not overturned.
So, if it was a lawful traffic stop, you have to comply. If it is an unlawful traffic stop, you probably, IANAL, don't have a duty to but probably should because you will not likely know whether it was a legal stop or not until well after the fact.
They said she was under arrest so at that point it's almost certainly legal even if you can win the arrest case itself after the fact.
If she was really impeding them though, it might be a hard win.
Like try blocking a police HQ driveway with your car and see what happens.
I know that the "cool" thing on Lemmy is to shit on police and whatnot, but we have zero context here. No clue what's happening other than her arguing and getting pulled out of her car.
the context is she blocked their car from leaving with a detained migrant so they arrested her for "impeding"
now does that make it justifiable to you? depends - do you think somebody preventing "undesirables" from being kidnapped by the gestapo justifies arrest or not?
"but they're just following orders, if she didn't want to get arrested she shouldn't have gotten in their way of carrying out the law"....
I just don't want us to get stuck in this thought trap where we see a cop and think "bad guy" every time. I've know and been friends with cops all over the US and I can say that a majority of them are just chill dides that care about their community. As for ICE (which I believe are the people in this video) I haven't interacted with any of them. It seems like a certain type of people sign up for that job though.
I still don't really know the full story of this clip so I can't make a judgement call on it. I'm leaning towards her side but I'm not 100% on that. I just wish more people would react with their brain instead of their heart.
I just don’t want us to get stuck in this thought trap where we see a cop and think “bad guy” every time.
Then it sounds like you're behind actual reality. Because this is the world now.
I'm sure most cops are at least somewhat decent people, just doing a job. But I am assuming every fucking pig I see my fucking enemy. Know why? Because it's a safe fucking bet.
I understand your point, but saying "all cops are pigs" doesn’t solve anything. If anything, it fans the flames and puts more people in danger. Extremists thinking on both sides of the isle is dangerous and non-constructive. The real issue isn't cops or ICE agents, it's the policies that allow them to do what they're doing. If we want to make change that's what needs targeted. All the violence (whether in speech or riots) is only going to strengthen the position of the right (calling the left criminals, saying they don't respect the law, and whatnot).
As a side note, this is exactly what the majority of Americans voted for. Whether it's right or wrong, Trump ran his campaign on the promise of mass deportation, and the majority of Americans loved it. Now the rubber is meeting the road. They're seeikg how ugly it is, and hopefully that's enough to change some minds.
Again, it's a safe assumption and that assumption may keep you safe. It's the strange man vs. a bear in the woods question.
To be honest it's hard to tell if a lot of leftists aren't capable of avoiding that thought trap, or they're just on edge from so many insane trumpers saying "hold on guys maybe ice didn't do something wrong here" and then being insanely racist 1 second later. My guess is both.
How's the boot taste, brand new account?
Brother I fear you've swung so far that you're now licking the ass instead of the boot.
What you have said has made me reconsider everything I know about the world.
Thank you so much.
Is this guy wearing 3 bodycams?