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submitted 1 year ago by leninmummy@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml

Don't get me wrong. I love Linux and FOSS. I have been using and installing distros on my own since I was 12. Now that I'm working in tech-related positions, after the Reddit migration happened, etc. I recovered my interest in all the Linux environment. I use Ubuntu as my main operating system in my Desktop, but I always end up feeling very limited. There's always software I can't use properly (and not just Windows stuff), some stuff badly configured with weird error messages... last time I was not able to even use the apt command. Sometimes I lack time and energy for troubleshooting and sometimes I just fail at it.

I usually end up in need of redoing a fresh install until it breaks up again. Maybe Linux is not good for beginners working full time? Maybe we should do something like that Cisco course that teaches you the basic commands?

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[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

The sky-high barrier to entry was a MAJOR problem for me.

When I was seriously considering installing Linux, the first issue I ran into was the lack of tutorials - or, more accurately, the bewildering array of tutorials. You couldn’t just search the term “Linux tutorial” and expect an answer that was specific enough to your case to actually be useful. There was (and is) a wide variety of distributions, each with their own unique behaviors and requirements.

If you were looking for help with the Windows or Mac OS, all you needed was the OS version number, plus maybe some basic hardware info, and most of the time you were good. With Linux, answering even the simplest question required a focused, concentrated effort, and there was still a decent chance a beginner wouldn’t have enough background knowledge to understand the answer. Generally speaking, beginner-friendly tutorials were often too broad to be useful, and specific tutorials tended to assume knowledge that a beginner didn’t have.

Unless you had someone standing by who was willing to be your Linux Yoda, starting out was very difficult. I didn’t know such a person, so I just gave up.

Granted, this was several years ago, and things may have changed. I’m speaking from my own limited experience.

Linux can be frustrating simply because it is so powerful and versatile in the way Windows is not. Unlike Windows, Linux is not a one size fits all approach. It's designed to be customized highly.

I think newbies would be better off with Linux Mint which pretty much works out of the box. This lowers the barrier to entry. As the newbie advances in their knowledge and skill, they can begin to tinker.

It's also not easy being a newbie and getting learning support isn't always easy. A lot of us sysadmins have a tendency to forget from whence they came.

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[-] knowncarbage@lemmy.fmhy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

Linux gives you freedom.

Freedom lets you break stuff.

If, like Windows or MacOSyou just use it as intended by official support, it should be fine. If you start just adding everything and anything from anyone you're gonna break stuff.

Other stuff is made to be idiot proof, Linux is not.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago

Using it since I was 12

People have been using X since that age so anything different is going to be jarring. Just the smallest roadblocks can put people off of stuff. Why bother learning something new when the old thing works?

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[-] dan1101@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's like so many other things, it's simple when you know it well but when you don't have a lot of experience it's very daunting. A lot depends on understanding the file system, like what is the difference between /run and /media and / and /root? So much is command line with some pretty arcane commands and parameters. And not knowing what tools there are to help, and not knowing how to fix things when they break.

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[-] huginn@feddit.it 5 points 1 year ago

Because I like to play videogames.

That's it. That's all that keeps me back. I can't play Destiny 2 on linux and I'm an addict with a need.

[-] Hjulkula@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I put Linux Mint on my grandmothers old computer because the hardware was preventing it from upgrading from Windows 7 without massive slowdown. Back when she was using windows (albeit windows 7) she would call me every week with a new issue. Since installing mint she very rarely has issues and whatever issues she does run into can usually be solved very easily over the phone. I would say that Linux is what you make it. If you want to copy and paste commands from sketchy guides, things are going to break. But if you just use it like my grandmother does, browsing the web and writing emails, nothing can really go wrong

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There are a lot of factors I think.

Some are pretty legitimate, like the lack of Adobe or Autodesk support on Linux, which means a lot of people just 100% cannot participate in their industry using Linux. It's borderline illegal to use Linux if you're a mechanical or civil engineer; Solidworks and MATLAB are pretty much regulatory requirements; you'd probably lose your engineering license if you turned in a drawing made in FreeCAD. In the art space, tell a publishers you drew something in Inkscape and watch their personality leak out their ears. Everyone hates Adobe, but glory to Adobe.

There are also legitimate culture shocks; there's this LTT video where they had iJustine on, and Linus and Justine swapped platforms, he on a Mac, she on a PC, and they were given basic tasks like "install Slack. Take a screenshot. Paste that screenshot in a Word Processing document. Save it as a PDF. Send that PDF to James in a Slack message. Uninstall Slack." Justine immediately started looking around the back of the monitor for USB ports, rapidly found that a fresh install of vanilla Windows doesn't (or didn't at the time) come with a word processor that could save documents as a PDF, Linus immediately went to the web browser instead of the app store...They did similar stunts with their Linux challenge later on, though I'd kinda argue about the tasks they were set to do (such as "sign" a document, which Linus started to do cryptologically but didn't have any keys enrolled because who the fuck does, and Luke just...copy/pasted an image of his handwriting?) But anyway. Linux is different than Windows to use, and even a VERY windows-like DE like Cinnamon is going to have differences that will feel foreign. I remember tripping over "shortcuts" being "links or launchers depending on what you want to do."

There's also the fact that Microsoft has done a world class job at making the average normie hate and fear the command line interface. Because universally, when you see a cmd prompt appear in Windows, it is a bad thing. That hate gets transferred to Linux, where we do routinely use the terminal because while it can be a little arcane, with a little bit of learning you can do some powerful stuff. But, because people have been so conditioned to hate the CLI by Microsoft, you get exchanges like this:

"Hey I'm trying out Pop!_OS because you nerds keep saying it's good, and my laptop can connect to the internet with ethernet but not Wi-Fi, what's up with that?" "Well let's see, could you open a terminal and type sudo lshw -C network, and then copy-paste what it says here for me to look at?" "NO!!!11!! NEVAR!!!! How DARE you suggest I use a computer by doing anything other than pointing at little pictures?! The indignity! It's current year!!"

Finally, before I hit the character limit for this post, there's just a reputation around Linux. I've had this happen more than once, someone will ask to use my computer to look something up on the internet. "Sure." They find the Firefox icon on the quicklaunch bar just fine, it pops open, they're doing fine, then they notice the color scheme and icons are a little different and they ask "uhh, what version of Windows is this?" And I say "It's Linux Mint." And they lift their hands off the keyboard with the same gesture as if I just told them my cute furry pet in their lap is actually a tarantula. They have it in their head that Linux is deliberately hard to use because it's for computer nerds--they think all Linux is Suckless--and because they're not computer nerds, they can't use Linux. So the second they know it's Linux, they "can't" use it.

[-] Piers@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Because people like to do stuff using a graphical UI but since that varies drastically from one distro to another all the instructions and support is reliant on doing stuff from the command line. That almost was solved by Ubuntu becoming ubiquitous but then they lost the plot.

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[-] vojel@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

It is hard to adapt Windows habits to Linux for some cases. E.g. you sometimes use Adobe Photocrap for editing photos. Reasonable that ppl want to use what they know, so they will try to use it with WINE and obviously will fail. „Linux sucks, it cant run the properitary shit subscription software, going back to Windows!“ if someone really depends on such software then yes stay the fuck with Windows. For most other tasks there is a solution available. And for the fear of terminal: I bet most users never ever have to see or use it once since there are GUI tools available for such crucial tasks like updating. Mint does a great job in terms of windows like experience for beginners but also is a full fledged GNU/Linux distro. But yeah if you want to change to Linux it is not just the desktop that changes, it is a whole philosophy that opens up a new world if you are curious.

[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago

Watch my dad use a any computer if you want to see frustration.

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Many (most?) Windows users find Windows to be frustrating. I find Gentoo to be extremely frustrating a lot of times. Frustration doesn't really drive people away from tools that are necessary to them.

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[-] All_I_Can@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Simple tasks can take you way more time than needed. For example, I have an old laptop under Bunsenlabs (based on Debian with Openbox). The other day, I wanted to connect a secondary monitor. I wasn't expected the nightmare I had to setup this thing. The layout was totally off with a dead space between the two screens where the cursor disappeared and ArandR was very rough to use. I ended up editing txt file if I remember correctly.

I absolutely love Linux but this kind of thing happen quite regularly to be honest.

[-] felis_magnetus@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

Well, why should the average end-user use Linux, actually? If your answer is privacy, taking control back or something in that general line, you're essentially advocating for a technological solution on the individual level as a solution to what essentially are and always have been political and ideological problems. Expecting that to work out is wishful thinking at best. I have growing suspicions, though, that it's more like a different ideological layer, and in that regard quite akin to making the climate catastrophe about choices of individual consumers (of which they often have very few, actually).

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[-] Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

Most of the time the frustrating thing is it's users. If you look for help about something that is obviously badly designed somehow... You get gatekeeping or "you're using it wrong" responses.

[-] Tower@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My first foray into Linux was Mint on an old laptop. Then on my desktop I can't quite remember what I used, but I stumbled across the rolling release versus point release divide in distros. I think I wanted a more up-to-date PHP version at the time, and debian/ubuntu were both slow to update to cutting edge had me jump to Arch, at least for development purposes. That was 2017, gaming on Linux wasn't really great back then.

I ended up dual-booting Arch on my desktop, and for all the supposed complexity, if you can read a manual properly, and work through the guides on the wiki… it actually leaves you with a better understanding of how Linux is put together. So long as you're aware of what commands you're putting in.

If I were to compare it to anything, then it's the same sort of difference between building your PC for yourself (Arch), against getting something custom built (ubuntu) versus getting a prebuilt system (Windows). And you know, since migrating to Arch I haven't actually reinstalled once—people who do that are, and this may be controversial, but they're doing it wrong. If you fuck up majorly, like running rm -rf / then sure, you'll have to.

A tip for using the terminal, when you're trying to discover things, you can use tab completion to speed things up. You don't have to type entire commands, or entire directories/filenames. Of course it won't give you any arguments for a script or program, that is what man <command> is for, or a quick search online.

Only a few weeks ago did I finally scrub Windows from my system, I'm never going back, and if I really need it… I'll look into a virtual machine.

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[-] Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

There is some software that it will plain just not run. I moved over to fedora from Windows and was loving it for about 6 months, but I needed CAD software for work that I could just not get to work, no matter what tinkering I did.

[-] cokane_88@lemmy.fmhy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

College for computers where I got exposed to Linux, used to all about windows but it changed so much over the years, I just can't do windows anymore.

I've been running Mint for years, I had a box on 17 until it went end of life. My plex media server or samba server that thing giving me issues, I believe some version of Lubuntu or something that went end of life, I managed to upgrade the OS in place without wiping it but the operating system has done change ways it handles static IP addresses, the box has 3 nic ports and I haven't put much effort into figuring it out.

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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2023
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Linux

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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