I'm open to feedback.
Even_Adder
Yeah, it only barely resembles the image on the wiki.
Tagging and filtering works for communities that need it. Those that have NSFW content enforce rules that allow users to customize their feeds, just like is done here with the [AI] tag.
Please explain how honoring artist’s will can make the situation 10x worse?
That's what I was talking about when I said:
Using things “without permission” forms the bedrock on which artistic expression and free speech are built upon. They want you to believe that analyzing things without permission somehow goes against copyright, when in reality, fair use is a part of copyright law, and the reason our discourse isn’t wholly controlled by mega-corporations and the rich.
And when I said:
The people who train these systems still have rights like you and I, and the public interest transcends individual consent. Rights holders, even when they are living, breathing individuals, would always prefer to restrict our access to materials, but from an ethical standpoint, the benefits we see from of fair use and library lending, outweigh author permissions. We need to uphold a higher ethical standard here for the benefit of society so that we don’t end up building a utopia for corporations, bullies, and every wannabe autocrat, destroying open dialogue in the process.
What do you think someone who thinks you’re going to write an unfavorable review would say when you ask them permission to analyze their work? They’ll say no. One point for the scammers. When you ask someone to scrutinize their interactions online, what will they say? They’ll say no, one point for the misinformation spreaders. When you ask someone to analyze their thing for reverse engineering, what will they say? They’ll say no, one point for the monopolists. When you ask someone to analyze their data for indexing, what will they say? They’ll say no, one point for the obstructors.
And when I said:
...If we allow that type of overreach, we would be giving anyone a blank check to threaten the general populace with legal trouble off of just from the way you draw the eyes on a character. This is bad, and I shouldn’t have to explain or spell it out to you.
What these people want unfairly restricts self-expression and speech. Art isn’t a product, it is speech, and people are allowed to participate in conversations even when there are parties that rather they didn’t. Wanting to bar others from iterating on your ideas or expressing the same ideas differently is both is selfish and harmful. That’s why the restrictions on art are so flexible and allow for so much to pulled from to make art.
You have spent so many hours dishonestly dodging the actual points I've made, it's not surprising you're lost this far in.
And we're discussing your assertion that AI art is unethical because of how it's trained. I've given examples and explanations on how your views on honoring artists' wills are not only unfair, but shortsighted, and harmful to all of us too. I do this not only in hopes of changing your mind, but also the minds of anyone who might be reading this thread.
Your actions don't match your words friend. It seems to me that if you were here doing as you say, there wouldn't be any doubt that tags are the best solution in this situation. People that want to can view the content, and those that don't can avoid it, as has always been done.
Loot at it this way. You want to bar me from posting this stuff here, even though you aren't bereft of other communities that function the way you want. I push back against it because you have the option to customize your feed and countless other communities to choose from. Why are you trying to take away my few choices?
I asked you to think about what copy write protects. It gives artists protection over specific expressions, not broad concepts like styles, and this fosters ethical self-expression and discourse. If we allow that type of overreach, we would be giving anyone a blank check to threaten the general populace with legal trouble off of just from the way you draw the eyes on a character. This is bad, and I shouldn't have to explain or spell it out to you.
What these people want unfairly restricts self-expression and speech. Art isn't a product, it is speech, and people are allowed to participate in conversations even when there are parties that rather they didn't. Wanting to bar others from iterating on your ideas or expressing the same ideas differently is both is selfish and harmful. That's why the restrictions on art are so flexible and allow for so much to pulled from to make art.
It is spelled out in the links I've replied with how these short sided power grabs will consolidate power at the top and damage life for us all. While Cory Doctorow doesn't endorse AI art, he agrees that it should exist. He goes on to say that you can't fix a labor problem with copyright, the way some artists are trying to do. That just changes how and how much you end up paying the people at the top.
And I want to reiterate, I'm not talking about the law here, I'm talking about the effects the laws have. I feel for the artists here, but honoring a special monopoly on abstract ideas and general forms of expression is a recipe for disaster that will only make our situation ×10 worse.
Maybe it's because the source was a CGI show? A 3D art style LoRA over anime models always yields a soft blend of the two sales. To me It looks like what the CGI could look like with infinite money.
Just recently in the thread they asked me to define what I meant by public interest and I gave examples of what I meant. They say they don't care about the laws, so I ask them to not look at the laws, but rather what the laws protect. In their reply, they again turn the conversation to the fact that legal language was used in the material I linked, rather than thinking of the ramifications of what it would be like to not have those protections to the public interest. Going so far as to cherry-pick quotes from the blog post I linked to present them in a way that tries to completely misrepresent the point of the post.
In the message before the one you replied to, I clearly stated what I'm arguing and why, and in their reply they completely distort what I said into a straw man that they then mock.