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How much do you all pay for Power?
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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
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Sounds like PG&E also got the go-ahead to do a bunch of underground lines and rate hikes to get customers to pay for them. I understand that buried lines are more-common in Europe -- you don't have to see power lines, but it costs more to stick 'em underground and maintain 'em, and the US typically keeps 'em aboveground, unless it's a major urban area.
https://www.kqed.org/news/12004361/yet-another-pge-rate-hike-could-be-coming-if-california-regulators-give-the-ok
I don't really care about not having lines visible, though I don't think that people not where underground lines are should be paying for those, that it should be people in an area that want them underground to cover the cost.
It would be interesting, I think, to have a journalist go to some states with wildly-different costs and do a breakdown of why electricity in different states costs different amounts. I think that it's pretty legitimate for someone living in a place with high utility costs to ask for and and get an explicit breakdown showing why their utility provider can't be competitive with one in another state.
It should be noted that burying lines in this case is not for aesthetic reasons, but because trees falling on/growing into above-ground lines is one of the most common causes of wildfires. Putting the lines below the ground is much safer in that respect, but it is much harder to do maintenance on the lines should something go wrong.
Most of these lines are likely in regions where almost nobody lives, but a fire started in those forests can threaten a much larger swathe of customers.
It costs less in the long run because you don’t start a forest fire that burns down half the state. Should have buried them to begin with.
Im in Fresno...we have some of the worst economic situations of a major city in Cali. So we pay bay area prices with midwest wages.
PGE are crooks. Their entire board and execs should be in prison for the fires their failing equipment have caused and the subsequent deaths.
That said, I moved from southern California to Illinois recently. We went from 50-60 cents/kwh to something like 5 cents/kwh. I use a lot to power my servers, fans, and AC and don't fret if my bill hits $200 a month.
Yeah, that does seem kind of unreasonable for Fresno. I mean, not that I think that there isn't grounds to complain about the Bay Area being where it is either, but I get your point. Hits hard.
I'm not gonna ask whether you qualify, doesn't matter for the standpoint of this discussion, but if you're not aware, California has been pretty gung-ho on some low-income household utility subsidy programs; some of those have gone through recently. If you do qualify, hope that might help.
https://fresnoland.org/2024/03/29/financial-assistance/
That program is closed now unfortunately. So many people tried to jump on that it was quickly overwhelmed from what I saw on the news.
I agree, its unfair for the bay AND the central valley. Given that PGE has had record profits year after year lately doesn't make me feel any better...
At this point im getting solar out of spite.
Aight, and seems like a legit thing to look into, but I'd run the numbers on 'em first. Especially given that they've got the grid connection fee coming or present, it will make solar less-favorable than it had been in some recent years, and a lot of companies went up to homeowners and told 'em "I've got a great investment for you" that didn't always turn out to be quite as good an idea as some people hoped.
You've got the time value of money. So if you're buying a ton of hardware up front, that's money that's either you aren't earning a return on or money that you're borrowing and paying interest for.
The panels and batteries do not last forever. You're getting N years of service out of them, even if nothing breaks.
You might also want to price insulation costs of various things on your place. Like, that may provide a better return. I don't know the numbers, but windows, weatherstripping, attic, etc.
EDIT: One other option, since Fresno's pretty arid too -- you might also look at evaporative coolers, aka swamp coolers. More maintenance than air conditioning, but about an eighth the energy consumption for a given amount of cooling, can keep windows open and fresh air coming through. I have a portable evaporative cooler that I keep by my desk that works nicely unless the temperature is really exceptionally high.
You are absolutely right. ill be looking at the numbers. But with 50c+ per kilowatt...its going to be hard NOT to make my money back.
At 50¢/kWh even adding batteries and trying to be as disconnected as (legally) possible from the grid might pay for itself!
I'm probably doing solar in spring, and I'm paying 20 cents per kwh. It's about a 13 year breakeven time, but that works for my circumstances. I plan to be here for awhile, my roof faces the right way, and it's a reasonable diversification of investment.
I'll still have some dependence on the grid, especially in winter. Might pull from the grid in some early morning hours, but net metering credits should pay for that.
I consider the rising price of electricity and the capital gains from an index funds roughly a wash. It's not, but I also don't want 100% of my investments in the stock market, and it's nice to do something responsible for the world.
So make sure to do your whole installation in one year. You only get to claim the 30% federal tax credit once. So don't go small with a plan to go bigger later. I couldn't do this without the federal credit.
Good to know thanks!
Maintain the underground power lines?