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[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 47 points 6 days ago

Why is that - wouldn't you be working against solar gravity? Like you don't have to get them there quickly, just launch them in some orbit that will decay and be taken in?

[-] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 113 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Because the Earth is really cookin', and ~~anything~~ anyone you hurl toward the sun will inherit that orbital velocity as well, meaning that they'll actually end up going around the sun, instead of into it. And due to the speed it would pick up on its way in, it would basically take up a highly-eccentric yet stable elliptical orbit.

"Well, what if we throw them in the other direction, to make up for it?" That's called retrograde, and that's basically exactly what you'd have to do: cancel out the Earth's entire orbital velocity. Which would take a lot of energy, plus a couple of really exacting gravity assists from planets on the way in.

(Edit to add: I may have explained this poorly. Basically, if you don't change your orbital speed at all, any movement you make toward or away from the host body means you just end up in an orbit of the same average distance, but in a more eccentric [elliptical] shape.)

By contrast, even though the escape velocity from the solar system is no slouch (42 km/s), you get to start with the Earth's orbital velocity (30 km/s)--meaning you're already a little under 3/4 of the way there. Plus, if you can make it to Jupiter and Saturn, you can get a significant gravity assist, and they're much bigger targets for such a maneuver than Mercury or Venus are.

So, yeah, bottom line: you only need a delta-V of about 12 km/s to get out of the solar system, but a delta-V of 30 km/s to get to the sun without going into orbit.

[-] Venator@lemmy.nz 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Why would you need to entirely cancel the earths orbital velocity, surely you just need to cancel a ~~tiny~~ bit of orbital velocity?

Edit: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/43913/do-you-need-0-km-s-velocity-to-crash-into-the-sun

[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

Canceling out only a tiny bit puts you on an orbit similar to earth's. You need to kill basically all of your momentum.

[-] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Good question, but if you cancel out only a little bit of orbital velocity, you just orbit in a little bit closer. Without any appreciable drag acting on you, there's nothing that will keep your orbit decaying. You'll just be in a smaller, perhaps slightly more eccentric orbit.

[-] Venator@lemmy.nz 0 points 5 days ago

But you'd need a higher velocity to orbit closer...

[-] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Yeah, orbital mechanics gets a little bit mind-bendy sometimes. If you're in a stable circular orbit, accelerating in the direction you're traveling will actually result in you traveling more slowly because you have moved to a higher orbit, and firing engines to slow down will actually speed you up because you move in closer to the host body and take up a faster orbit.

This is actually a problem spacecraft deal with regularly. If a Dragon capsule is behind the ISS and wants to dock, using its thrusters to accelerate toward the ISS will actually result in it falling further behind. Decelerating will get it closer, though it will then be in a lower orbit. Orbital rendezvous is tough.

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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
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