234
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
234 points (83.8% liked)
Ask Lemmy
26734 readers
1465 users here now
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Because in your scenario they are not a threat of imminent violence, and by being a vigilante you prevent society from enforcing consequences in the way the social contract defines - through the justice system.
Now, in a scenario where they are about to commit violence, or the justice system has failed, the balance may be different.
The social contract only applies to the tolerent. By allowing the intolerant to spread their hate you allow them to spread their ideas. Physical violence isn't the only kind of violence. Allowing the intolerant to speak intolerance you are being tolerent of the intolerant.
But there's an important difference between allowing intolerance, and letting the legal system be the arbiter of how it should be disallowed.
Vigilante justice not only deprives the perpetrator of their right to a fair trial and proportionate punishment (yes, being intolerant does not deprive you of your human rights) but also denies the victims their right to see the perpetrator receive justice.
YOU do not get to be the arbiter of justice, just because you think someone is a terrible person. Maybe they're mentally ill. Maybe they have dementia. Maybe they're also a victim of abuse.
Document the incident, protect and comfort the victim, contact the police and allow actual justice to take place.
And when the police are KKK? When the police are the Nazis? This is such a privileged perspective it's not even funny. "Cawl the poweeeeccee" as if they haven't historically sided with the intolerant. You have so much faith in the justice system. Law isn't morality it's an enforcement of what those in power want.
This is also ignoring that intolerance isn't illegal. So cops won't do shit and might even arrest you for wasting their time. Fucking libs I swear. Don't worry about it someone will do the punching for you while you stay back and call the cops for them to shoot a nearby dog or arrest the black person in the situation.
Also I said why other than law because I assumed you knew that law doesn't function to enforce tolerance. Clearly I overestimated you.
Left your reading comprehension at home?
The argument I was supporting is that you don't have carte blanche to do whatever you want to intolerant people. The argument I am making is that you have a moral obligation to rely on the law first because that IS the social contract. Not because the law would punish you for it.
Not all police are the same everywhere, but regardless, you can't just stab people who are being racist.
The justice system is failing by allowing them to spew and spread their intolerance. They are creating a society that make minorities fear (look at Springfield with literal kkk fliers going around). We should create a society where the intolerant are fearful of spreading their message.
And nobody suggested carte blanche except you and the person you're supporting (aka a strawman). A punch isn't a gunshot, it isn't a stabbing, and it isn't torture. Their violent rhetoric should be met with violence to make them fear spreading their message.
When the law doesnt align with what's right then relying on the law is pointless. The law will defend their ability to spread intolerance because the law is tolerant of the intolerant.