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It's a two party system. Everybody knows if you run as a third party you're merely increasing the chances that the ones furthest from you politically will be elected.
It's impossible for a third party candidate to be running for president in the US in good faith unless they're complete fucking idiots with no idea how the political system works.
Jill Stein knows how the system works. So obviously she's not acting in good faith.
Simple as that.
Seems like you beat the coin flip today, and people agree with you. Watch out, next time the Libertarians and Communists will tell you that just getting on the ballot is enough to make a dent in the two party system...
It's a thread about the Green Party, those trolls don't bother coming here. The third party enthusiasts only show up for the Harris threads.
...speaking of good faith.
The communist party of the United States has consistently refused to run candidates for major offices very specifically to avoid spoiling the vote.
The Communist Party, yes. The air-quote Communists on Lemmy are just as happy to tell you to vote third party as anyone else.
Oh yeah the kind who will do anything so long as it won’t help
That's the best summary possible
I am a leftist and I celebrate everyone's right to vote how they please. If people would like to hear my reasons for voting for Kamala, or my concerns about third party spoiling, I can tell them. But a person's right to vote is more important to me than how they vote. That's what democracy and being for the people is about. Use your rights, I support that. We all deserve to use our rights.
What an insufferable position and way of arguing for it. To anyone reading this thread, she only gets worse with each reply. She's arguing for... Literally Everything necessarily taking a backseat to protecting people from even the mere concept of them feeling like their voting rights are taken away. Despite the fact that no one in this thread is trying to do that, and only Republicans are ever interested in such a thing, she's really oddly interested in making sure people vote for third parties, which helps Republicans, without ever hearing the truth about third parties because it might hurt their feelings. Which as we all know, is definitely taking their voting rights away.
She undoubtedly will point out some out of context quote about how the rational person in this discussion is a fAsCisT but each time she did that previously in the thread below, she wasn't doing it in good faith so you be the judge.
You realize your strawman here is a bad faith argument? In fact, I actually can't find a single good faith argument in anything you've written. You start out with an appeal to emotion. Then strawman. Then no true scotsman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Also we all know you're the """rational""" other person on an alt account. You type the same and it's been days since anyone responded to this thread. Lol.
I am voting for Kamala and I'm perfectly happy to tell people why. Maybe people will agree with me and that's great. Otherwise, I still support someone's right to vote no matter how they vote. Because that's what a right is, and that's what the right to vote grants. I disagree with any speech that advocates for limiting the right to vote, particularly because I'm a woman and women's rights are being taken away actively.
I also think that while yes, obviously Jill Stein is a Russian asset, that doesn't mean every independent or third party candidate is. I am on the side of the every day person and am fine with hearing criticisms of Dems and of the way we currently vote.
I will point out any speech that is a dog whistle to eroding our rights, though. I've quoted the specific issues with what you said. I don't really need to say more. I accept you think it's fine to control others. I accept that you refuse to learn about civil rights and the right to vote. I accept that you refuse to analyze propaganda and dog whistles in your speech. Whatever, it's your opinion. I also think your little comment serves as an advertisement anyway for any people reading this thread besides you, lol.
Quite conspiratorial to think I'm that other person.. do you do that? Why would you even think that people would go through the trouble? Weird.
More conspiratorial thinking. in any case it's pretty ridiculous to try and tell someone they shouldn't inform people about third parties because they might get their feelings hurt and then.... Feel unable to vote or something?
I already explained that you speak and type the same. No, that's not something I do, but that's something you seem to do. Based on you doing it.
I quoted the speech you engaged in exactly as it relates to anti-democracy speech and dog whistles.
I'm not engaging in conspiratorial thinking, that's not what that is. Conspiratorial thinkers are known for:
Gee, I think that voting really counts. Conspiratorial thinkers believe that voting is pointless. I also think people should run for office and use their rights and communicate with their government. I am not antigovernment. Wild, it's like you're wrong and you think that conspiratorial thinking just means suspecting anyone of being hostile. Lol.
I'm so tired of fascists.
Yikes, yeah you're just as wrong about this as you were about the things you're being criticized for in the first place.
OK. Agree to disagree.
https://youtu.be/VbFmicUTb_k?si=KWic5pGj9STRmw4j
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/04/12/specials/johnson-rightsadd.html
No one here is trying to take anyone's rights away. The other person commenting that they prefer more informed votes to uninformed votes doesn't even begin to border on removing anyone's rights, nor is it a "dog whistle" for anything. It's patently ridiculous. As is the assertion that I am an their alt. Seriously, I write like them? They wrote long detailed responses to your bluster, I'm simply dismissing you on the grounds that your idea is so ridiculous it's not worth actually engaging in, clearly since no matter what the dude wrote you took away something weird and persecution-y from it. Us both using spellcheck and capital letters doesn't make us the same person. What reason would anyone have to care so deeply about what you wrote to switch accounts and pretend to be someone else? Even if it looked like we wrote exactly the same (we definitely don't), that still shouldn't be your first assumption. Yet it was, and that's delusional.
Disagree.
I have no issue with this statement. I quoted exactly what I took issue with, which is that they said "it should be a REQUIREMENT to have an education in order to vote." That's literally unconstitutional and illegal and fascist. Just like any other fascist speech, I am against that. That is indeed advocating to take away people's right to vote. Quite clearly.
That is not clear at all, it is either not literally meant, despite the wording -- that's normal now -- or it's an opinion I understand. It is not fascist to require education. We do that all the time in our society. So yeah, still patently ridiculous.
https://civilrights.org/blog/to-honor-brown-v-board-of-education-give-everyone-the-ballot/
I can link this literature allllll day
The reason for amendments is that conditions change. I can quote basic logic all day but I grow tired of this bullshit.
What conditions have changed in present day that would make denying someone their right to vote not fascist?
You mean you're quitting because you've obviously lost.
Making a fascist idea into an official amendment does not make it less fascist but instead more so.
The point of me referencing the constitution was to show that indeed, many many many people think like I do, so much so it's in our literal constitution. Keep up with your own arguments.
Absurd thing to think from what I've written. I'm so tired of people defending garbage ideas. And no I don't mean right to vote. The only people attacking that are republicans. The garbage idea in question is defending third party voters who refuse to be educated in a basic way.
No, itt alone there are Dems advocating for these ideas.
Taking away people's right to vote, or advocating for speech that does so, is fascist in nature, yes.
Practically no one would agree with you that what was said was fascist or taking rights away or any of these other scary words you're throwing out. Unless they are trying hard to justify third party voting.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-8-6-2/ALDE_00013450/
Kinda seems like majority opinion agrees with me that making education a requirement to vote would be blatantly unconstitutional. Because it denies people their right to vote. Which is literally fascism - an authoritarian dictatorship - when people don't have democracy or the ability to vote.
We all know the reasoning for that wording. Discrimination and such. We've made plenty of amendments in the past. Do you call those unconstitutional? You're very much overreacting to this very specific idea which btw practically no one throws around. But I understand it completely. It is not even in the same ballpark as fascism, that's ridiculous bullshit and the wrong thing to hyper focus on. We have a problem with people not understanding what they are even doing. That is something to try to address and calling that fascism is absolutely and plainly ridiculous af
A normal person would've said "careful about putting conditions on voting" or something. Not you, somehow it's supposed to not be sus AF that you're raging on about fascism and the constitution. It's an understandable sentiment that you could've talked through but what you chose instead is to demonize the sentiment and ignore the dude's point while insisting it's a dog whistle. And now you're doing it to me. No conversation is possible here. However it's clearer than ever that your priority is defending uneducated votes above all, like that's a worthy cause lol
Making education a REQUIREMENT to voting is 100% fascism, and saying fascist ideals and dog whistles isn't okay. Making education a requirement to voting is inherently discriminatory.
I get that you're trying to gaslight me, it's kinda cute. Rawr, you almost bamboozled me. I'm not overreacting and I've linked numerous very reputable sources. One of which is the literal constitution, which you're dismissing by saying it can be amended eventually lol. I mean lol. Yes but currently everyone else including Dem president Lyndon B Johnson and Bill Clinton and Obama and Biden and Harris currently all are fine with this constitution as it is. Like we have a ton of establishment agreement here. It actually hurts the Harris campaign to advocate for something like this - maybe you want people to vote 3rd party.
You want to amend the constitution to reduce people's ability to vote, which you claim is no biggie and def not fascism lol.
I agree we need more accessible education - through a free national online school with adaptive learning and no time limits or age restrictions. If grandpa wants to learn 5th grade science or computer science, let him and give him the educational credit. Build an educational legacy.
But we don't need to make education a reason to deny someone their right to vote.
I had it right the first message when I said INSUFFERABLE
That's not a valid argument, like I already stated.
https://youtu.be/VbFmicUTb_k?si=KWic5pGj9STRmw4j
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/04/12/specials/johnson-rightsadd.html
Yea... though President Debs would have been excellent.
Guys as soon as we've got 5% popular vote we get on the ballots automatically. That prevents unavoidable blockers like how our own campaign fucked up the paperwork! It will be all over for these fuckers, we will win it for certain after that.
There's room for 3rd party candidates who have principals that voters can compare candidates to and not let the 2 party system shift in whatever direction it wants as soon as the 2 parties start racing to the bottom. But if you accept Putin's money and influence it is your party who is racing to the bottom and you have no principles so that's when you become a useless drain.
Everybody capable of rational thought knows that. However there are plenty of tankie douchebags who would love to tell you what a wrong ShItLiB you are for saying this basic truth