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this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Unpopular Opinion
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While I agree that everyone should have at least some understanding of cooking, the problem of obesity isn't directly related to knowing how to cook. It has far more to do with the accessibility of certain types of food in a given community. The horribly unhealthy food is often a fraction of the cost of fresh, healthy food. It's not necessarily the case that don't know/want to cook their own healthy meals, it's that they literally can't afford to do so.
It's impossible to even start if you don't know how to cook.
True, but it’s impossible to do no matter what you know if it’s unaffordable
C'mon rice and and beans and basic meat is cheap.
It's typically only the heavily processed versions of beans and meats that are cheap. Besides, those items hardly make for a healthy diet by themselves. It's all the other ingredients required that drive the costs up.
Also, your suggestion of simply pushing for cooking classes regardless of the cost, would ironically make the problem worse. The burden of that cost will inevitably land on poorer people. And at the same time potentially removing access to other valuable classes and skills. They will be paying for an education that they still can't afford to utilize.
The cheapest meats I see are the unprocessed ones: Ground beef. Whole chickens. Whole turkeys. Liver. Those giant pork loins.
The expensive meats are the cut up chickens, the chickens ready to cook sealed in whatever flavour, the bacon, the spam, the sausage. The deli meat are multiples more expensive.
Dried beans are cheap.
Rice is cheap.
That's the vast majority of my calories.
I don't know how your taxes work, but the poorer people pay less in absolute terms and percentage terms. Marginal tax rates go up as you earn more. Yes the capital gains tax is low and makes the percentages look odd.
The cost of food is obviously going to vary depending on location, but it's pretty well proven that healthier, more nutritional foods tend to be more expensive than the less healthy, mass manufactured alternative. Ground beef, rice, and beans alone do NOT make for a healthy and balanced diet, even if they are cheap. Next time you're shopping, compare the price and ingredients of fresh vegetables vs canned or frozen. Compare the breads, dairy products, grains and cereals, snacks, condiments, etc. You'll almost certainly find that the more affordable options are loaded with far more preservatives, additives and various sugars.
While a cooking class may help a person make better choices with their diet, it will not change the fact that a large portion of the population literally can't afford to eat healthier.
It's true that poor people pay less in taxes, but the taxes will always have a much greater impact on their lives compared to someone with higher income and therefore more available money. If someone makes $1000/month and pays 20% tax, they only have $800 left. Compared to someone that makes $10000/month and pays 30% tax, they still have $7000 left over. Assuming they both live in the same area and pay the same bills, which one is affected by a tax increase more? Which one is going to be able to afford the more expensive, but healthier foods?
JFC obviously you need more than rice, beans, and ground beef. But things like this make up the bulk of your calories. Not all, the bulk.
Frozen vegetables are fine, in fact they study it and it's even better nutritionally because the vitamins are frozen and don't start to break down. Canned vegetables are probably fine too, not sure if they add sugar or salt.
This is the problem, people think you need fresh everything everyday and that broccoli needs to bulk of your calories or something like that, and you don't. The bulk (not all, the bulk) of your calories can come from very basic foods. You can eat healthy if you know some basic cooking.
You keep discounting things like rice, beans, all the meats I listed, and now you discount frozen vegetables, canned vegetables. You discount all the stuff that is cheap and healthy. These are the basic foods that you need to learn how to cook. This is the problem, you think everything needs to be fresh everyday and you can't get the bulk (not all, the bulk) from basic foods.
Ok taxes, I doubt tax increases will ever go to the poor. Nor do I think this would be that expensive to teach cooking. When you look at how much we spend on schools and teachers, adding some hot plates and ovens is minuscule. You replace hours in one class with another, no change in teachers.
On to how this will save money, do you know how many problems come from obesity? And diabetes? How many other issues? Look at the health care costs, it's outrageous. Some basic cooking skills will go a long way to prevent a lot of this, saving money for both people and government. Just need a tiny little bit at the start and it'll save money for everyone.
I completely agree with you that cooking should be taught in schools, but you seem to be convinced that making that specific class mandatory will solve all the problems of obesity. Myself, and others on this thread, have tried to point out the most glaring issue that the group most disproportionately affected by obesity simply does not always have access to healthier options. That's not even mentioning the mental health issues and social pressures that perpetuate obesity. None of which have anything to do with a person's knowledge or ability to cook.
As for the cost of implementing a cooking class, is not nearly as simple as getting a couple microwaves and a hot plate. There needs to be teachers trained in the coursework, equipment and facilities that needs to be purchased and maintained, safety protocols need to be created and implemented, a regulatory board is needed to inspect and maintain the safety and cleanliness, considerations for the various dietary or health concerns of each individual student that attends, etc. If a cooking class gets out on the budget and schedule, what other classes get cut to make room? Are those classes not already providing valuable life skills and/or a creative outlet for developing students.
Also, coming from someone that is a low socioeconomic peasant himself, tax increases always affect the poor.
No I'm not under the impression that it will solve 100% of everything obesity jfc. It will solve a lot. Not all, a lot. This is just like you thinking I'm saying 100% rice beans and beef. You seem to take everything as 0% or 100%. I addressed food costs, teachers, schools costs, how this will save money in the grand scheme. Just like how you discounted all the healthy cheap food I listed, you ignore what I said. All that combined I think our conversation is done.
First of all, I have not discounted any of the foods you have mentioned. I apologize if I came off that way at any point. It is certainly possible to find ways to make healthy meals relatively cheaply, but it is much more effort. The only reason I ignored anything is because it's tertiary to my original point. Which is that the healthier alternatives for most foods are quite often more expensive and more difficult to access for large portion of the worlds population. The same population that is most affected by obesity, at least in developed countries. This may admittedly be somewhat difficult for someone to understand unless they have personally had to struggle to pay for the most basic necessities.
Second, unless I missed something (entirely possible), you haven't really addressed the costs of creating and enforcing a mandatory cooking class. You have merely stated that it is affordable and may actually save money over time. But, you haven't offered any logical reasoning to support these claims.
Throw in some frozen veggie (hell you can find fresh ones decently priced if you buy veggies that are in season) and you’re set.
People way overestimate the costs of a healthy meal plan. Truth of the matter is that it requires time, and it won’t taste as good - if you aren’t decent in the kitchen. That’s most people’s problem.
Maybe, but the argument is the rice and beans example. If people aren’t familiar with turning rice and beans into a meal, and don’t have the experience to do it efficiently, they’re more likely to opt for convenience over cost and nutrition