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Remember being 15
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
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Man... The amount of comments saying that kids are dumb at fifteen and I didn't know what I was doing at fifteen are all falsely equating respect with success and knowledge. Kids literally don't know what their doing because they are figuring it out. They're not dumb, they have a lot to learn. And most want to.
Kids need respect for being who they are. You give most kids real respect and watch them do everything they can to live up to it. They need real connection and mentors. When you give high support then you can set high expectations.
The difference is you knowing that you don't know, and an average teenager feeling like they know it all, while they know about as much as nothing.
You've got it all backwards. Adults are the ones who think they know everything. Don't mistake confidence for arrogance. If you raise a kid right, then they'll confidently do dumb shit, knowing they'll learn from it and you'll keep them safe. That's healthy development. But you look at the adults who never take risks, never consider different ideas, refuse to learn tech or politics because they think they won't get it. That's low self esteem, but it's also a form of arrogance. The arrogant belief that you are already the best you can possibly be. That you have no growing left to do. Even if you think you're the dumbest person alive, thinking you're the smartest version of yourself is arrogance.
It's all the Dunning-Kruger effect. We are cursed to continually fail on the side of you don't know what you don't know.
I had this idea in my teens that we really needed a common sense brigade. Small groups of people jury style that would just go from place to place and say hey that's stupid Don't do that. Because I could see right from wrong I assumed that we just needed a bunch of people that could also see right from wrong to go around and lead the idiots to reasonable decisions. It was very easy for my 15-year-old mine to see black and white everywhere. It's all good versus evil and smart versus stupid.
Many decades later, I know grasp that most of the world's problems are because people tries to fit everything into black and white.
no, kids need understanding. respect is earned. the difference between the two is trust.
Respect is granted for just being human. That can be erode if they violate core social norms, but when respect is given trust is given back. They then give the effort that results in learning.
respect for life is not respect for the individual.
trust must exist before respect is given. let me give you an example.
a cop pulls you over, you were not breaking any laws that you were aware of. the officer walks up and asks you if you know why you were pulled over. you tell him no and he proceeds to tell you that you were speeding.
you know this was a lie since you had speed control on.
did you respect the officer before or after he pulled you over?
did your level of respect change before or after he lied to you?
in my case, I never respected the officer. I understand that he's doing a job and will help however I can. However, after he lies to me I could never trust him, thus I could never respect him.
my point is, In order for respect to exist, trust must be present first. I don't trust strangers, even if they're in positions of public trust.
You are right though. Respect and trust correlate to each other and fortify each other. The more trust you have in someone, the more respect you have for them, the more respect you have for someone, the more trust you have in them.
I can still trust somebody, but I can still not respect them. that relationship cannot be flipped around.
Teenagers are in development of becoming an individual. They may have personalities, but they haven't tempered them for society yet. That tempering process is through human connections. I'd argue the best outcomes come through respect, patient connections with adults who demonstrate composure and allow them to grow that composure.
I don't know what you're suggesting other than with holding respect.
that's exactly my point. I understand they have to be tempered by society. Once they have achieved this level of tempering it's respectable for the amount of effort they put in. some people though, never get through that tempering and I cannot respect them. I understand they may have social anxiety or some other reason, but I can't trust them like others that have so I can't respect them like others. there are other ways to respect though.
IMO that's not respect, thats understanding. If you respected them, you would at least seem them as equals to yourself and treat them as an equal. You understand they aren't at the same level as yourself and give them some leeway to "feel it out" and find their own path. this includes supporting them when they make mistakes or explaining how to avoid the mistakes in the future.
respect is a gift given from one individual to another. it signifies the trust one has in the other. A child respects a parent because they trust the parent. when the trust is broken, the respect dies with it. infact, respect of an adult is important to the development of a young mind and is a mechanism used to emulate the adult. if you respect someone, you might want to try being like them, even when you're an adult.
so in short, I disagree that respect should be given automatically. It's earned through nurturing relationships and built on trust.
I think the desire to be in society and tempered by it is respectable. It's not a binary that is separated by a hurdle. Because I am an adult, I have understanding of where they are in their journey of being socialized as an adult. I respect the effort they have made, the understanding they've developed, and the progress they've achieved. I don't confuse them with being an adult. But I nurture that desire to be an adult through connection and mentorship if that is available.
I don't trust them like others. I trust them for where they are. I respect them for who they are and where they are. As you said, there are other ways to respect. That is what I've chosen. Another way.
I agree that respect is a gift given. Gifts aren't earned. They are not transactions. It says, "I see you." Because I have developed eyes to see others, I can give that gift. I can give them space in my self for them to stretch and grow into whomever they are. Some of who they become is chosen, but some is set. I can see this. This is respect. "I see you again." And as they grow into that person, they turn towards me and ask, "Do you see me?" and I can answer "I see you again and again."
They can never emulate me because there is a part of me that will always be unreachable and unknown to them because they are not me. They can try to be like me and they the best success is if they are exactly like themselves in the process of being like me. An authentic self can emerge. I extend respect in hopes that they become themselves.
I don't respect cops to begin with. If I didn't know they were a cop then I would respect them.
because you don't trust them, right?
I do not
You talk like all the adults that made life hell when I was 15. If anyone has to "earn" respect, it's adults who forgot what it's like to live under someone else's thumb.
you talk like a petulant child that was never pushed to achieve more than you thought you were capable of.
how's that feel?
I remember every moment of my life. I remember being 10 months old laying in my crib smelling the herb garden out the window. I remember my parents never showing up to any of my school events. I remember the way the belt across my back and thighs felt when my father got home from a "hard day". I remember spending the weekend in jail because I was doing something my father made me do.
fuck you, asshole.
I never earned respect from them while they were alive. I didn't even get any understanding from them. I only got yelled at, hit, and verbally abused when they felt they were losing control of their own life. respect is earned through proving you can be trusted with mature tasks. understanding should be given. understanding that a child may know to take out the trash but not know the importance of it. this makes it difficult for them to prioritize and objectively complete goals.
children need understanding from adults, to provide guidance that allows them to grow on their own power and lean on when they need support.
next time you want to attack someone based on who they are, take the entitled prick out of your mouth before you speak, asshole.
You shouldn't have had to. They should have loved and respected you unconditionally.