302
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
302 points (98.7% liked)
World News
39332 readers
3012 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I 100% support Palestinian statehood but to deny that Hamas are terrorists is absurd. A true "freedom fighter" would attack only government and military targets and would never condone killing 500+ civilians at a music festival. Do you believe that's acceptable?
Hamas targets were military targets. More than 33% killed were active IDF soldiers.
The music festival next to a military base was not even supposed to be there. And there were many armed IDF soldiers at the festival (human shields anyone?)
If Hamas wanted civilian casualties they would have pushed into Israeli cities instead of raiding the heavily guarded military bases around the Gaza envelope.
For a more detailed explanation, an Israeli person made this great video https://youtu.be/Pt_1k7nSv1M
They planned to and did attack plenty of kibbutzes, slaughtering and kidnapping all civilian inhabitants they could
Their plans were clearly to capture and ransom them. Even Israeli witnesses testify to that, as well as to the fact that the IDF did the vast majority of damage.
You can find reports from journalists that saw were shown security and bodycam footage, that describe something very different. Freedom fighters taking lots of joy in killing civilians, young and old
But I know the story on Hexbear that those were all just Mossad plants
edit: here
A few more recent sources, including some Israeli ones:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-07/israel-hannibal-directive-kidnap-hamas-gaza-hostages-idf/104224430
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231021-israel-settler-israel-forces-killed-hostages-not-hamas/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officer-recounts-ordering-tank-fire-on-beeri-home-during-hostage-standoff-on-oct-7/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQcjyhPOIk
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bjGL0HFTgiU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GjC0_swYbT4
I'm more than aware that a lot of Israeli civilians killed by friendly fire. But your claim that the IDF "did the vast majority of damage" is exactly the hexbear fantasy I'm talking about.
You're lying to yourself, and others. You might think it's for the better, but it's not. It's lies like these, on both sides, that lead to a worse world and more killings. It's not too late for you to change.
I don't think it's hard to imagine how tanks, artillery, and apache helicopters would do more damage than rifles and a handful of RPGs.
You just have to look at the incinerated cars and bodies from the festival to see how much damage the helicopters did there.
How many of the casualties do you think were caused by the IDF?
There's no way anyone can know that without a full and transparent investigation being done, which Israel did not allow to happen.
That said, there are many indicators that they did a significant amount of damage.
One example:
All the burned bodies and cars from the festival that were somehow burned by Hamas (with molotovs?), and ~~definitely not~~ by Apache helicopters equipped with hellfire missiles. Oh... except for the handful of bodies that turned out to be Hamas fighters. THOSE ones were killed and burned by hellfire missiles, but the Israeli bodies were burned by Hamas. And so were their cars of course. Let's not worry about why the cars were trucked off far away, shredded, and compacted before being buried. Definitely has nothing to do with making it harder to investigate what actually happened to them.
Much of this info has been available for over a year now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel#Friendly_fire_and_use_of_the_Hannibal_Directive
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-admits-immense-amount-friendly-fire-7-october
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861
Sure I know there were a lot of friendly fire incidents.
But you said that the IDF "did the vast (capitalized) majority of damage".
Now you seem to have dialed that down quite a bit to "a significant amount of damage" and with the disclaimer "there's no way to know that". So that makes you wonder why you're making these changes when asked to support your previous argument?
That's my belief versus the mostly confirmed accounts that are based on limited evidence.
Describing it as factual was my mistake, but I did so because of how incredibly likely I think it is.