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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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I hope we can keep supporting Ukraine. This is one of the few times in history when the scenario is so clear cut good vs evil. The Ukrainians fought hard to get out from under the thumb of Russia and the Russians just couldn’t have that so they invaded. The support the world provides to Ukraine is support provided for all Democracies.
Democracy is when you ban all left-leaning parties in your country and burn a hall full of trade unionists alive, and the more parties you ban and trade unionists you burn alive the more democratic you are. I don't see what's so hard for these tankies to get!!
They didn't just ban the left-wing parties they also seized all their assets.
Plenty of communist countries ban all but one party, and some even suppress trade unions, and you guys are still willing to call them democratic.
Interesting, do you have a source for this? Any particular countries you'd like to critique?
China, Cuba, Vietnam all allow only one political party. As for suppressing trade unions, there's the Jasic incident in China in 2018, where they tried to organize a union and strike and they fired all of them. Despite being Maoist in nature, they were detained, arrested, beaten, and disappeared by the police. And they generally have low rates of trade unions participation.
Yeah, clearcut good is when a government starts building monuments to Holocaust perpetrators, and banning minority languages including Yiddish, followed by a decade of bombing ethnic minorities in a border region.
Did they ban Yiddish, too? I hadn't heard that, and it's weird given that almost all Ukrainian Jews fled long ago to get away from, you know, Ukrainian Nazis.
The 2019 language law has carve outs for English, and national minority languages that are EU languages. Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish specifically don't get exempted.
It's cool though there's definitely no ethnic cleansing component to this war, nosiree.
I liked that part of the unalloyed good where your heroes locked a hundred ethnically unalloyed bad people in a building and burned them alive
I really don't think a lot of the libs know that happened, or anything about the racial animosity of the right wing nationalist *cough* Nazi *cough* Galacians, or the ethnic makeup and goals of the coup Rada, or really much of anything about what's happening.
What?
Euromaiden!?!??? Like a major defining moment in Ukrainian history!
The one where NATO backed coup overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine? That seems like the opposite of fighting to get out from under foreign thumb
The one that happened because their leader was passing laws making him a dictator and violently putting down protesters leading to more protests causing him to flee. Also any support came after that was over, not before.
See, if he were a legitimate leader he would have let the west supplant him in a violent coup WITHOUT reacting to it. That makes it justified post hoc.
You have to let the nazis march. It's the rules.
So people in their country should never fight if their leader is working to surpress their rights and become a dictator. They just have to wait for elections that will never be fair again if they even happen. Also he did react to it by fleeing, Putin is not the leader of Ukraine, he has no business reacting to anything.
Putin did march his nazies into Ukraine after that if that's what you mean.
Were you at the January 6th riots, per chance? Your sure have the same reasoning as them.
Not in the US as I never been there. Also was Biden becoming the dictator of the US? Like if he was declaring protests illegal, giving cops legal rights to kill anyone who does protest and basically make himself the supreme ruler of the US then yea it would be justified.
The January 6 protesters certainly believed he was becoming a dictator. I guess the riots were justified.
Thinking something is true =/= true
Indeed, you should think about that fact yourself.
So are you saying protests are always unjustified because protestors could be wrong?
No
OK then I'm going to stay with my point that the laws passed that triggered the Euromaidan were very protestable and January 6th in the US was a bunch of crazies that fell for propaganda due to poor US education. Also that protests are a good way to get rid of a wannabe dictator.
Yes, I'm aware that the liberal position is that couping democratic governments is acceptable if they personally agree with it, but unacceptable when other people do it.
This is my last reply since I would need to flip my phone to hit the button and that's way too much effort but this seems to have run it's course anyways.
I'm pretty sure the liberal position would be that all violent protests are bad, no matter what. That's why I was asking if that was your position so I could see if you were the rare lib that supports Russia's war.
Also I don't think a coup is when people drive a wannabe dictator out if their country though English isn't my first language. And even if it is I absolutely support people exercising their right to protest and remove a leader trying to dismantle a democracy. I'm not sure what mental gymnastics you are trying to do to equate that to Jan 6th in the US but it makes you sound like a lib.
Good lord, this is the most "I'm totally not mad" sentence I've ever seen.
It's not, liberals are fine with violent protests when it's against their enemies.
Yes, that absolutely is a coup.
So you support the January 6th riots
I mean there's a recording of Victoria Neuland talking about setting it up from months before but whatever.
Ah yes, the same point 30 other have brought up as well even though what was said was who they would think the leader is going to be which they, to no ones surprise, said the leader of the opposition, ya know, the guy who would be in power if their system worked like it should. That's like someone saying they like the guy as leader that got all the votes.
But the guy who actually got all the votes was yanukovich.
I mean yeah, if you ignore like 200 years of history, then entire history and purpose of NATO, any understanding of the nature of geopolitics and power whatsoever, everything about the economics and politics of all the involved parties, the entire timeline of events between 2013 and now, and a number of other things, it would be clear cut.
Ukraine is Harry Skywalker and Russia is ebil Darth Voldemord. How much more clear could it be?