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The deer aren't crossing the road
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this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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Since you robbed anyone else from participating in the conversation when you removed my last comment explaining myself, let's try this again.
I will never again degrade my self worth by editing who I am or what I say to make other people happy. I have NEVER used the word 'retard' from a place of hatred or anger, in this thread or otherwise (if I did, this would be a very different situation). I have only ever used it as a descriptive word in a mildly humerous post meant to generate discussion. You are literally the only one here acting like a child that can't handle a simple word, everyone else is perfectly happy going about their day with maturity.
I'm not asking you to censor yourself, or to undermine your self-worth. I'm saying that if your comment ruffles feathers to the point that I get a comment report, I'm going to address it. You're free to speak how you please, but freedom of speech is not freedom from repercussions. I touch on this in other parts of the thread.
I'm not interested in discussing this topic further, and would appreciate it if we could shelve it.
If I were truly free to say as I please then you wouldn't remove my comments. These are not repercussions, they are censorship for you also removed comments that did not use the scary words. Also I'm pretty certain I ruffled exactly one (ok, maybe two or three) feathers, if it's that big a deal then place a content warning or message around the comment. Don't obliterate from history so no one can ever see it again, morally speaking it is not your sole place to decide what can be written and read.
Just a heads up, your comment above currently has a score of -9 for me right now. That means at least 11 people downvoted, and more if anyone upvoted.
Do you think Nazis should also be allowed to say anything they want without restriction? Should any language have consequences? I assume you would agree some restrictions are good. You just think it shouldn't effect you.
The only answer to this can only ever be a complete and utter, yes. It's that or we need to stop pretending that free speech is actually a thing. Either speech is free for every single person, no exceptions, ever, or it is NOT free. The reciprocal of that is (and absolutely should be) that anyone can simply choose not to listen and tell them to shut the fuck up, something for which you are trying to take full advantage of right now I'm sure
Language should NEVER have even the slightest hint of a restriction placed upon it, that is always a slippery and dangerous slope that has historically led to people losing their social autonomy and civil rights. The ONLY exception to this is if the language is used to directly harm, then it is no longer language, it is a weapon and should definitely be restricted. I am completely fine with being beholden to those restrictions, when they are applied properly.
You can say what ever you want in your own place. This place isn't yours and we reserve the right to show you the door.
Free speech is not what you think it is. Free speech means the government won't stop you from speaking. It doesn't mean you are allowed to say anything you want. You need to go back to middle school civics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
If there is no limit to tolerance, the intolerant will abuse that and we end up with an intolerant society. Tolerance is a social contract. If you break it, you are no longer tolerated.
Cool. Then stop using that word. It is directly harmful to some people.
Free speech does actually mean anyone can “articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction.” Look I can post Wikipedia links too, yay! Only the last bit pertains exclusively to governments. I am not advocating for universal tolerance and you do not have to tolerate anything anyone says, ever. But, that doesn’t also mean you or anyone else gets to have any say in the language that any other person uses to communicate their ideas or feelings. If that were not true then free speech would simply not exist.
No one is being directly harmed because no one can be directly harmed as the word has never once been directed at anyone (except deer) in this entire thread. Something which could be easily known if the comments still existed to give context to this whole situation. Words and language are not like physical objects in that they can not cause harm via accident. They can only ever have the meaning we give them and the impact that we choose to allow them to have on us, never anything more. Absolutely no one has been harmed here that did not, themselves, choose to be harmed.
Do you not agree that using a word that refers to some people's mental abilities to refer to a deer's mental abilities implies those people have the mental abilities of those deer? How are you so incapable of seeing how your language applies beyond it's intent? I think you may need to take an IQ test yourself.
Yes, that's exactly what it implies, which is why it us such a good descriptor. I happen to be one of those people often considered 'retarded'. I understand from first hand experience what its like to be on the receiving end of the word used in hatred and fear. I also understand that it is just a word that when used in certain contexts can mean nothing more than a simple and innocuous "deer be really dumb". I am not the one struggling to understand what my language implies, I am simply choosing to ignore that specific social rule because my experience in life has led me to believe it to be fucking stupid. There exists a land in which things are not constantly blown out of proportion by over-reactivity and blind offendedness where real conversation (and humor) can occur, this is clearly not that land.
Acting like you're mature while complaining that someone corrected your language on the internet. Lol. Your self-worth is hopefully not tied to the usage of a slur. If it is, well you must not be worth much.
First, I'm not really complaining as much as explaining and my language hasn't been 'corrected'. It has merely, rather annoyingly, been censored by the decision of a single person thereby destroying any chance for someone else to come along and join the conversion. In my opinion that is extremely immature, especially coming from a moderator.
Second, and this is the point I've been trying to make, language is mired in situation and driven by intent when it crosses cultural bounds, almost never by social connotation (language is defined solely by small social circles, not by big ones like a bunch of random internet strangers that we all are). In this situation, my use of the word could never have been directed at anyone and my intention was always pretty clear. Avoiding the use of a word simply because it's not considered politically correct by some, especially when it's obvious the word is not being used to harm, is really dumb way to live life. Any one of us could simply invent a new word and give it the same harmful meaning, but that only matters if we all pretend it actually matters.
Third, trying to force someone to change how they interact and communicate with the world is absolutely a degradation of ones self-worth. This is not a kind or equal world if it dictates the words of others unless those words are directly used to harm or control. The big scary R word is not a slur unless it is being used as one (It's most definitely not here). Again, I could call someone a "Flargasnorgen" with the intention of hatred and anger and cause the same harm. It would likely require the use of several other supporting words to convey that meaning, does that then make all those other words big scary words that we can't say too?
Fourth, I never said I was being mature, I can be petty as fuck.
OK, I'll explain this to you. Using the word as an insult means that it's a bad thing to be. For example, the word sinister refers to left-handed people (though so far removed that most don't know this). It was used to say something is evil, and in turn to call people who are left-handed evil. It was insulting to left-handed people by association.
If, for example, I were to use blonde to refer negatively to someone, it'd imply that it's wrong to be blonde and blondes should be ashamed of who they are, right? Consider how you'd feel if we used a part of who you are as an insult. You wouldn't enjoy seeing it used probably, right? Hopefully you'd have some empathy and stop, but maybe that's too much to ask for.
Acting like you're actually the one being oppressed is honestly hilarious while you insult a group of people.
I was insulting deer ffs, people never even entered the equation
So you can call deer the n word by that logic?
They aren't likely to have any strong feelings on the matter
But black people might. Do you really not see the problem of casually using slurs as insults?
The vast majority of people are mature enough and intelligent enough to be capable of telling the basic ass difference between when a word is targeted towards them and when it is being used as nothing more than a simple word. Especially when that word is only ever used in reference to an animal literally incapable of even comprehending our social structure, let alone be offended by it. If you are offended by a word that is neither directed at you nor even contextually relevant to you, then you alone are choosing to bring that harm to yourself. It is not my responsibility or anyone else's to protect you from your own immaturity and choices.
Being scared to say certain words just because in some contexts it is used to harm is fucking stupid and it does not solve a single, real problem. It creates a bunch of problems by annihilating productive conversations and distracting from real issues, such as when the word is actually weaponized and used to harm. I will die on my much more logical hill that I have NEVER used any of these scary words to cause any harm other than the harm that people like you invent to feel like you are fighting some injustice in the world. Grow the fuck up and put your energy toward solving legitimate problems like actual racism, or our disintegrating climate, or our rapidly diminishing civil rights, or maybe anything other than trying to policing the use of a word whose meaning will literally change in the next few years anyway.
Really defending slurs now, huh
You would've loved HP Lovecraft's cat, I'm sure
I think we simply have differing definitions of what a slur actually is:
I contend that I have targeted no one and therefore have not used a slur
It's targeted at that group even when you apply it to someone who's not in that group. If a bunch of white people call each other the n word, is that acceptable for you? If someone goes through the streets yelling it, at no one in particular, is that okay? Intent and target does play a role, that's obvious, but they don't excuse the use in general.
Did you even read the og comments? We were fucking talking about deer, this never needed to be anything more than that.
If someone wants to yell the n-word up and down a public street, then yeah, it is entirely within their right to do so. They're probably gonna look like an annoying crackhead, but still. Now, if they were to direct that word towards someone with the intention of causing harm or use it in a loaded situation, then that would be an entirely different story. Skin colour really shouldn't have anything to do with any part of this, there is a solid argument to be made that race doesn't even exist (racism and all that very much do exist, but lets not go down this rabbit hole) and really shouldn't even be a factor when determining acceptability of something.