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But what about Ukrainian self determination? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 weeks ago by SlayGuevara@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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So Ukraine has turned into a shit show with on the one hand Russia and on the other hand the US and EU. It is clear that Ukraine is merely a pawn in their chess game. This is clear to me.

I try to make it clear to my surroundings too but one question keeps coming back to me whenever it comes to peace talks: what about what Ukrainians want? Should they accept a split in their country with Russia seizing captured land?

I noticed that I do not have a clear answer to this and I wanted to see some input from you guys. Peace talks should imo be the goal as it would be the end to a bloody conflict and it would further (even if slightly) reduce risk for a bigger war. But it is also clear that Ukraine is just a pawn in those peace talks and everything will be decided between the US and Russia. Is it realistic to acknowledge Ukrainian interest in this? And if so, to what extent can leftist support said interests?

Thank you in advance for your answers. It might make it easier for me to go against the warmongering that has been going on lately, and to prevent people close to me from falling for it.

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[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Should we uncritically support national self-determination? Even when the path to self-determination means following a reactionary path like Ukraine did? I don't believe so.

Regardless, Ukraine self-determination was thrown out of the window after abandoning neutrality post-2014 coup, the people from ukraine didn't fight for national self-determination and allowed their nation to be sliced by foreign powers.

[–] cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Eh, I think it's slightly disingenuous to say that Ukrainians didn't fight for self-determination. But I'm not accusing you of being a liar or ignorant, I understand that you were very much generalizing and speaking hyperbolically, and I totally get the sentiment of what you mean.

I think it's more accurate to say that any Ukrainians who did fight for actual self-determination were slandered and branded as public enemies, disappeared or murdered, bought off, or shunned and displaced. Which created a chilling effect and intensified conflict and suffering.

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You're right, i went a bit unhinged and dismissed the patriots that actually fought for Ukraine self-determination pre and post maidan coup.

[–] cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

It's alright, comrade.