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this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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Pointing out propaganda is not being pro-russia. Wanting an end to the American empire is not being pro-russia
I think you are being reductive. One can simultaneously be anti Russia and Anti US imperialism.
Idk why America being bad means oligarchic Russia is good. There's no nuance in your ideology. The US generally sucks. They happen to be in the correct side of this conflict. They arent always, but here they are.
Yes we agree.
So pointing out American lies shouldn't be an issue, right? Pointing out propaganda shouldn't be an issue, right?
I'm not the one boiling this down to good guys and bad guys being on "the right side".
I support Russia in this conflict insofar as a defeat of Ukraine would be a defeat of the American empire, which would help usher in a multi-polar world - as we are seeing now - which aids national self-determination (as we are starting to see around the world, from the west African countries throwing off the yoke of France and the IMF, south American countries collaborating and throwing out US stooges, and middle eastern countries seeking peace with each other).
If the US sucks, and the us has been shown to lie, and the us continues to lie, then ask yourself why the us supports Ukraine and to what end. Ask yourself why NATO felt the need to sabotage peace talks. Ask yourself why NATO felt the need to make Zelensky maintain an idea that Ukraine would join NATO, after being told it wouldn't happen behind closed doors.
Lmao is this your idea of nuance? "Well all the other times they were shown to be ghouls, but this time where I'm bought in, they're definitely not"
Are you implying NATO is just the US? That no other NATO nation has sway, and that they are all US puppet?
This isnt a US vs Russia issue. Its the majority of Europe as well. I tend to trust them as a collective before Id trust Russia.
Again. I think you are being reductive and turning this into a US bad issue when the US isnt even the most important player here. ID argue Ukraine is the most important player here.
The US is not the center of the world. Its a very American perspective
NATO is and has always been an extension of the US political apparatus. NATO is a void husk of ghouls initially staffed by ex-nazis like Adolph heusinger.
NATO is allegedly a defensive alliance but has so far only been involved offensively.
When has NATO ever gone against the will of the US?
The current Ukrainian government was installed by the US, the US president and his predecessor are both embroiled in corruption scandals in Ukraine, and the US is sending an inordinate amount of resources to Ukraine. The US is fighting a proxy war.
Why would you trust what Europe does more than Russia? Why is your skepticism a one way street? I trust neither, I observe the material conditions and the verifiable facts. That is what should lie to grounds for your belief, not vibes about "slavs being untrustworthy" or whatever. Why exactly does it matter how many parts a population is parted up in? Would you trust the Russian federation more if it was The Russian federation and it's puppet states?
Besides - Far more countries are netural/pro-russia than opposed.
You keep coming back to this statement, this is now the third time I argue it. As before I do not think it is a question of "us bad", however it is striking to me that you 1. Part this up into "good" and "bad" sides 2. Insist you're on the "good" side 3. Discount any notion of nuance as wanting to make this about the us.
Seeing as how you keep returning to this way of dismissing me and seeing how you choose to avoid answering my questions It is clear you are not actually interested in a good faith discussion.
As I've clearly illustrated it is about the US. You refusing to engage with this point does not make it less true.
Edit: you keep speaking of nuance, yet I see none from you. You reduce this to a question of right and wrong, good and bad, and then declare "were on the good side". How is this nuanced? How is it nuanced to complain about added context? The fact that I am unwilling to mindlessly go "putler bad, zlava Zelensky" somehow makes me the unnuanced one? The fact that I think questions of NATO encroachment, breaches of treaties and economic interests are relevant to the discussion is somehow unnuanced?
Your willingness to reduce it all to "invasion wrong, all other doesn't matter" is somehow nuanced? Please do some self-crit.
You don't know about anything you're talking about