this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2025
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What you're saying is completely true, but in no way contradicts what I said. I was referring to the fundamental idea of faith. I never said people adhere to it, and that nobody actually thinks God, or whatever else, exists.
Obviously, a lot of people do. Just like a lot of people think the Earth is flat or that chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows. A huge number of people are uneducated, have been fed propaganda and manipulated for years. I don't think anyone needs any convincing that churches lie to and scam people on a daily basis for personal gain. But doesn't make faith or religion itself a lie.
Similarly, there's quite a few self improvement gurus who make up false ideas about self improvement and feed lies to their many, many followers. But does that make self improvement itself a lie, or a pointless dream?
"I don't think anyone needs any convincing that churches lie to and scam people on a daily basis for personal gain."
And yet televangelists exist. Megachurches exist. Churches have been scamming Christs sheep for millennia all for them to be none the wiser.
I'm still somewhat confused about the distinction they are drawing, but it seems to be that yes we who are not morons can acknowledge scammers exist in a given field while not completely ignoring the value of that field.
Where it gets dicey for me is that from my pov the vast majority of religious "leaders" and self help people are scammers, and most people who are doing actually good work in these areas are not exactly prominent. "Do good works" doesn't make money. "Treat yourself well" doesn't make money. Because these people work within capitalism, they require a constant revenue stream and the positive aspects of these areas don't provide that revenue stream.
So you refer with
to the church vs. belief thing?