this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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There isn’t a middle ground in a lot of discussions. It’s just that the correct and just course of action is intentionally hidden behind fear and prejudice. Have you ever wondered why nobody ever talks about policies as class interests (discuss who would benefit and why these policies are pushed) in mainstream media, as if it’s taboo?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4D1wI6wGjU
So if you call yourself a centralist, then sorry to say, but you are either intentionally or unintentionally ignorant.
So I'll add the video to my list of TODOs. But I must admit that this discussion seems to be very USA centric. Here in Spain at least, lots of politicians and media do talk about which classes are affected by each policy and why. The same used to happen when I lived in Argentina.
Of course there are a lot of places where there is no middle ground. But there are a lot of places where there is. Do we abolish private property? I don't think there's a middle ground there. Do we privatize the education system completely? Lots of middle ground.
It's as naive (and dangerous I might add) to think that there is no middle ground anywhere as to think there is a middle ground everywhere. Because again, both postures are extremes, and extremes are never good nor right.
That’s an extreme position in itself.
but ma'am I must let the nazis take over because combating them would be extremism, which is just as bad
I am very enlightened
Remember, if nazism is just an opinion to you and destroying it seems extreme to you because 'freedom of speech', you're probably not threatened by it
It would be an extreme position in most of the United States history to completely honor the treaties with the American Indian tribes and not ethnically clense the population, but in my humble optinion that extreme position would have been a better outcome.
It was an extreme position for John Brown to do what he saw was right for the society he was in, but he was certainly right to liberate the slaves.
Can there be positions where compromise is necessary? Sure when material limitations show up.
Compromising with entities that can't justify their existence like the bourgeoisie are decisions where one of the more "extreme" options is the right one.
Every position has two sides. Not all of them are equal but what you're disregarding is perspective and the lives people live to get those perspectives. To you, climate change might be the most important issue in your life. You fight for it, campaign for it, it's unthinkable how anyone could support fossil fuels. But the rural coal miner stranded in a small town with no jobs, no outside money coming in, they rely on coal jobs and if they lose them, they starve.
Understanding how people get to the wrong conclusion from your perspective opens you up to being more persuasive in your ideals. Yes, we should still get rid of coal but in the back of your mind you need to remember all the people who will suffer as a result and account for it. If a coal miner won't literally starve with their family at the loss of their job, they might be more open to leaving it.
Class warfare is a whole other thing.
And so you choose to perpetuate the capitalist system and keep the coal miner and their descendants trapped in the company town? Sooner or later, the mine will be depleted, the coal miner will be left destitute, the environment is destroyed, and the mine owner is swimming in capital.
Human history is defined by class struggle, and class struggle is the overarching contradiction. It’s not some other thing. It’s the main thing.
Oof! Somebody took Karl's kool-aid.
So, first off, it's not the capitalist system that is at fault for the miners not having a back-up plan after the coal mine dries or coal is not marketable anymore. It's due to corrupt politicians and lack of foresight from the constituents, that's at fault there. But that's to be expected. Most people are unable to plan their life with more than 5 years ahead, imagine a whole town working for commodities company where they don't have enough education to understand the complexities of the market. It's simply nearly impossible. The only place that I know that did something like this is Norway, where they have a trust fund coming from all the oil money, so when their oil dries up, they can still live out of that money for a while.
And as you can see from my previous paragraph, that's not something that communism or socialism can change. That's human nature. Cuba is not a shit hole because the US embargo, it is because Castro wanted its own SimCity. The same goes for Russia during the Soviet era, or China even now. Corruption is endemic of the politicians. And that's a fact. No system survives corruption.
Finally, addressing the whole "history is a class struggle". That's to say a lot. You could say that human history has inherent class struggle, and that's fine. But in reality, history is not defined by class struggle, more than could be defined by change of ethos, power dynamics or even whimsical change of heart. It's too simplistic to say that everything has been a class struggle, because it simplifies human emotions and desires to materialistic possessions.
Have you, like, looked around at what kind of place you are responding to lmao
Actually, I didn't! Thanks a ton. I was going through All. This actually explains a lot.
Projection
Karl Marx is literally the most cited economist on the fucking planet. If you don't know marx, you don't know economics, much less politics.
Lol
lol life expectancy is higher and LGBT rights legislation is better in Cuba than the USA, maybe do some basic research on the propaganda put out by the leaders of the shithole country you're in 🙃
you act like we somehow don't factor them in. Best options are reparations and stable government income until they find a job, or directly train them for working in renewables.
I guarantee that washing solar panels is more healthy than working in a coal mine
Who is shipping them solar panels? Haven't seen the left push many bills to send renewable energy to rural towns. They sure as shit can't afford to buy them so again what is the plan here? Ideals are so lovely in everyone's mind but they're just lip service. You can write out a plan, getting it done is the hard part. The people you're unwilling to compromise with are standing in your way, yet everyone here bawks at the idea of getting shit done at half-steps and would rather get blocked at every leap. Radical change cannot exist with the presence of the right which makes compromise essential until that changes.
Everyone on the left knows coal plants are bad, coal mining is bad, yet the only bills being pushed are to ban and remove them NOT supplement the jobs and workers they alienate which is why it's taking so long to remove them entirely. The right won't let go of the objectively wrong way to do things so long as there are ~~people~~ voters they can capitalize on whose lives depend on doing the wrong thing.
Sis, China has some of the largest mines that contribute to solar panel production in the world! Taiwan even trades with them in order to get the materials for such things. They make it themselves! Also how would a global collective addressing everyone's needs not help anyone?
lip service? Since when is their environmental program lip service, they have the largest de-desertification campaign in the world! They are the largest user of renewable energy in the world! One of the forefronts of Nuclear energy and the discovery of Fusion! Aren't socialist countries notorious for writing out big economic plans and completing them? You don't go from poor agrarian backwater to spacefaring superpower in 20 years while having fought off the largest and most devastating war in history on lip service.
Also what is this "compromise with the right" bullshit? That never goes well, ever. They will never allow you to enact meaningful change, and are actively trying to undermine you in order to kill you anyway. You really think we want to work within their bourgeoisie democracy, one that favors the will of the right above all else? I assure you, we aren't voting our way to socialism. To truly move forward you need only eliminate the right and install a socialist state through Revolution. The right isn't necessary since at all, as they are only a force of regression.
We do not write the bills, there are no socialists in the offices of the US government. What delusions do you have that somehow a communist exists in the US government?
The reason the US is taking too long to replace coal is because they aren't trying to replace coal. Every arm of the government actively deters and undermines all efforts at renewable energy. An actual socialist 5 year plan would implement these changes quickly and as effectively as possible. China's efforts even include retraining coal workers to operate in the renewable energy sector.
How can every single sentence you have be totally and completely wrong?