this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2025
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In 2025, the federal minimum wage is officially a “poverty wage.” The annual earnings of a single adult working full-time, year-round at $7.25 an hour now fall below the poverty threshold of $15,650 (established by the Department of Health and Human Services guidelines). The limitations of how the federal government calculates poverty understate how far the minimum wage is from economic security for workers and their families.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Scroll back up and read what you wrote, then.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

You must mean this:

because they don’t have the mental capacity to organize themselves.

Condescending, like the other thread says, I can see that. How can there be contempt for something that people cannot change. That would be stupid.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Condescending, like the other thread says, I can see that. How can there be contempt for something that people cannot change.

You see poor people and your first thought is how stupid they must be.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Thank you.

I wrote mental capacity because stress, irregular schedules, two jobs and all the other stuff drain energy and trap even clever people. Intelligence is only part of the problem.

My point is that they are not stupid but helpless. Usually I argue that there shouldn't be minimum wage and that people have to organize to earn more, but I can see that it makes sense for that group.

Still, as we can see, relying on others is not sustainable. Minimum wage workers have to find a way to rise their wages on their own.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Usually I argue that there shouldn’t be minimum wage

Shocker, that.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org -1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

It's the wrong side to tackle the problem.

Wages can be risen with an increased demand for workers. How? That is the relevant question that leads to the right answers. Minimum wage is a distraction.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

It’s the wrong side to tackle the problem.

I know. Workers having enough to live on instead of corporations and billionaires hoarding it all is a problem, huh?

[–] seeigel@feddit.org -1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Please don't ignore my second paragraph.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Your second paragraph is an admission that you have no better ideas but want to abandon minimum wage anyway. That's basically an admission that you don't want people to be able to earn a living.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Seems like you don't know this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour

I think I point out the obstacle to people making a living. There is no easy answer. Rising minumum wage sounds easy but as I wrote, it is a distraction.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

I think I point out the obstacle to people making a living. There is no easy answer.

"Let the corporations exploit people" is a pretty easy answer. It requires no effort and you don't have to waste time supporting the interests of those unwashed mental deficients you don't want to earn a living.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org 0 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Please read the article. It's one of the most important things to know.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I have read the article, and I don't see where it supports your disregard for the wages of people you consider beneath you.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I don't have that disregard. My point is that the supply of jobs has to be increased instead of setting a lower bound on wages.

Taking them as a whole, the general movements of wages are exclusively regulated by the expansion and contraction of the industrial reserve army

Focussing on minimum wages makes workers ignore how they are controlled and how they can increase their wages without having to rely on benevolence. To me, that's disregardful.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

My point is that the supply of jobs has to be increased instead of setting a lower bound on wages.

And you have admitted that you have no solution in that direction. But you still want to abandon the only mitigation we have.

Focussing on minimum wages makes workers ignore how they are controlled and how they can increase their wages without having to rely on benevolence.

Frankly, I think you just want to abandon the minimum wage and I don't trust anything else you're saying on the matter. Put the measures you want in place first. Until then, fuck anyone who wants to forego raising the minimum wage to a livable wage. I get that exploiting workers is very popular among republicans, centrists, and anyone else who sees workers as resources to be exploited rather than people.

[–] seeigel@feddit.org 1 points 11 minutes ago

Jobs can always be created by lowering interest rates. It's just not in the hand of the workers to change, neither is minimum wage.

You don't have to trust anything I said. I am telling you about market mechanisms that you can verify on your own.

You are right that I want to abandon minimum wage, or rather the need for minimum wage. I want the demand for work to rise to the point that workers earn livable wages that are secured by the demand for their work.

You can try to rise minimum wages however much you want. My point is that your time is better spent on rising demand for workers. Marx is telling you how that works. You definitely don't have to trust me on that.