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If you do, why do you believe in God? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 day ago by sloppysol@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

192 comments fedilink hide all child comments

As simple as possible to summarize the best way you can, first, please. Feel free to expand after, or just say whatever you want lol. Honest question.

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[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I am genuinely curious what these conflicting attributes are in your view.

But also, from a dialectical lens, contradiction exists in all things in our own observable reality, from the lowest levels of the concept of movement to the highest levels of the organization of human society. Why would a seeming contradiction be proof that God cannot exist?

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's the nature of a contradiction. 2 or more mutually exclusive attributes can't exist together.

[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But contradiction exists everywhere in our understanding of nature and the universe.

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This would also make god imperfect.

[–] Manmoth@lemmy.ml 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Just for the sake of argument... According to what standard? Yours? Why should we follow your standard?

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

My standard is logic, reason, and evidence.

Why shouldn't you follow my standard?

[–] Manmoth@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

From my other comment:

Arguments for God’s existence (such as classical theistic arguments) are not merely isolated truth claims—they function at the paradigmatic level, offering a foundation for knowledge itself.

If you deny God’s existence, you must account for the reliability of reason, logic, and abstract universals like mathematics. If these are simply “self-evident,” then you’re assuming the very thing your worldview has no means to justify.

Assuming you don't believe in God...

without a transcendent source of rationality, why assume logic is binding or that it applies universally?

Basically you're in no position to determine whether God is imperfect or not if you can't justify the tools you use to make that assessment.

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Prove it exists, then we'll worry about if it's perfect.

[–] Manmoth@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago

I just did using the transcendental argument. God is the necessary precondition for universals such as logic and reason. They exist therefore God exists and these universal metaphysics are a reflection of his divine mind.

What is the epistemic justification for your world view? Make sure not to use universals or subjective experience because the former is in question and the latter is arbitrary.

[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't believe it would. Perfection can, and insofar as perfection exists in our reality does, exist alongside perceived contradiction as contradiction exists in all things.

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago

Also, that's fallacious logic to think that imperfection doesn't make the thing imperfect.

[–] Geodad@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago

The god that the isrealites originally worshipped was a rather weak storm god.

Somehow over the centuries, its cult has conflated it into some all powerful entity.

If it were to stay in its original manifestation, I still wouldn't believe it existed, but I would take a more agnostic approach to it - as I do with gods from other myths.