this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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[–] jonne@infosec.pub 36 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

My theory is that you need both. You need figures that are non violent, but also the threat of more violent leaders around the corner if the non violent ones get ignored. You need Malcolm X to make MLK look like the compromise.

[–] sleep_deprived@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The phrase that's been rolling around my head is "credible threat of violence".

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

100%. A credible threat of violence is the real sweet spot, it's the currency that the whole world operates by. Actual violence is primarily only useful for establishing that threat.

Like, Brian Thompson was an evil person but he was just a cog in a machine and not that hard to replace. However, his killing spooked the industry, and at least for a time, they stopped denying so many claims, which saved many lives - because there was a credible threat that if they deny someone's claim, they (or someone who cares about them) might kill those responsible. On the other side of the equation, the state was very concerned about finding the killer/someone to pin the blame on, because they needed to establish a credible threat of violence against anyone who might follow his example.

People in America seem to love "going postal," just one big dramatic act that only you know about and that you won't walk away from. But that doesn't really set up a credible threat for the future. Thompson's killer at least had the good sense to try to get away - if he did, then he could continue providing a credible threat, and he would also provide a "proof of concept" for people looking to fight back without necessarily dying.

Ideally, if you could have a more formal organization that could lay out demands and red lines, it would add to predictability and help keep the threat of violence consistent and predictable. Otherwise, there's just a vague sense that maybe someone out there will be set off by something, but it's hard to negotiate with that, hard to say which actions might set someone off. Stochastic violence isn't ideal, but if more formal organizations are subverted in the various ways they are, then violence becomes less controlled and directed, and the credible threat of violence becomes harder to establish.