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Thank you, I'll look into those!
Draw.io if you don't want to give MS money.
If you must try searching for deals like this one
Yeah I'm trying to avoid MS if possible, especially since I probably have to try to make the jump to linux eventually with how things are going. I probably need to at least try Visio though, to see is it able to do what I want, so far I've had no luck with alternatives for it.
For example draw.io doesn't seem to work for this (I've tried before as well), since I really need easy auto arranging for the nodes for it to be usable enough - and I haven't been able to do that with it. So far the only thing that I've found to work even relatively well for what I want to do has been this even with it's many limitations, since it allows to just pulling the lines wherever and it will auto arrange everything. When the trees grow to crazy sizes (over a hundred etc.), it's almost impossible to make things work without the auto arranging, otherwise I wouldn't even need the tools I'm looking for...
MS has visio basic included in its subscription for commercial via the web.
The desktop edition should work on Linux with something like Wine and for $10 I think it's worth it.