this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2025
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Pffft, star trek is just as bad as star wars. Somehow people conveniently ignore everything with vulcans. Mind melds, horny/kill/die mode...
Where's that space opera switch meme? Trek is great, but it's science fiction in the same 'setting only' way that star wars is.
The Matrix somehow dodging all the bullets in this thread is fitting
Ohh, I'm calling it the fuck out. It's the worst of the three mentioned. Only the first movie is good.
What do you mean, the first?
First implies that there are more. It used to be a common joke to ignore the sequels because they suck.
Heyyyy! The Animatrix was good!
That was a series of prequels, so it's safe.
And interquels to the sequels
Kid's Story isn't
The Animatrix doubled down on "humans are an infinitely renewable power source" long after Matrix was criticized for that bad science.
What would you have them do, retcon the entire premise of the first?
They wrote themselves an out when Morpheus told Neo that everything he learned in the Matrix was a lie.
So yeah, Neo should have later flipped the script on Morpheus and his claim that humans were batteries. It would have pointed to a reason other than utility that machines kept humans alive. It would suggest peace was a possibility.
Ahh, I took it the other way and thought you were saying they all sucked. 😆
Stanley is the best!
it tries to tie the progresses in science and techology to make a statement about humanity.
I don't think star wars says that except for "what if there was a gun so big you could shoot a planet?"
Which seems to be a smarter question than your "statement about humanity" when actually living in that humanity where all the time someone is trying to build a gun as big as possible in many contexts and interpretations.
Seems like you're making a a bad faith argument.
Star Trek deals with lots of different technologies and their potential impacts on human behaviour; some people don't want to use the transporter or develop phobias from it, the replicators eradicate hunger and poverty (at least on earth) so society evolves to be more egalitarian, what if we could travel faster than light, etc etc.
Pew pew lasers and swords and magic is hardly technologies' potential impact on humanity, which is the point of harder sci fi.
Seems why? For me it doesn't seem so, and it likely won't, but maybe you can add some detail.
I dunno, for me Door Into Summer is harder sci-fi, but Foundation is harder sci-fi too, and Starship Troopers is harder sci-fi, and Dune is harder sci-fi as well, and Citizen of the Galaxy is harder sci-fi, and one can go on. Pilot Pirx is very hard sci-fi, and many other things by Lem.
Star Trek is not more similar to those than Star Wars.
Mockery is not an argument in itself and would somewhat hurt your main argument if such were made.
Dune has drugs that give people magic powers. Foundation has magic mind powers.
That's no different than Vulcan mind powers.
Dune and foundation aren't more sci-fi than Trek.
Star Trek and Star Wars are fundamentally different in their worldbuilding, storytelling and overall narrative direction, the only thing they share are spaceships and spacewar.
Maybe try watching some of the more famous Star Trek episodes and try analyzing the plot and events with a more critical eye, you will find entire interesting conversations, ethical dilemmas and perspectives you never considered unfold from doing this with the best of Star Trek.
Star Wars? This is far less commonly a fruitful endeavor to undertake (with the glorious exception being Andor of course).
Bullshit. The Death Star novel, most of NJO, KotOR II, Allston's parts of the X-Wing series, Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest and the Last of the Jedi, Medstar and Coruscant Nights, I can go on, - there's plenty of good things.
Ok fair I meant only the main movies and tv shows, I am not comparing the full universe of Star Wars to the full universe of Star Trek, especially because didn't Disney make all of that non-canon?
Also noted, Knights Of The Old Republic II is good, I mean it was peak Bioware so definitely I will take that note.
There is a DNA that is fundamentally different to Star Trek though, an ability to be both epic and everyday, big existential war and small micro story, philosophical and then action packed. There is plenty of awful Star Trek... ooof plenty of it.. but there is also a spirit to Star Trek that I think makes it different than Star Wars which isn't to say there isn't good Scifi within the Star Wars universe.
Star Wars is about syncretic understanding of life and story and morality, - say, I'd trust a Star Wars fan who's not a humanities major to understand what anti-fascism is more than a humanities major who's not a Star Wars fan. I don't think I can describe it better than Lucas himself does, and he seems to have achieved the opening of his museum telling lots on the subject.
Star Trek I haven't watched enough to judge. But I think they are orthogonal, where Star Trek has idealism, Star Wars has life and chaos, and where Star Trek has philosophy, there Star Wars has just the story, and where Star Trek has neutrality, Star Wars has choice.
No, you can't call Star Trek idealistic, or at least you can't contrast it to Star Wars as more idealistic.
Star Trek is VERY cynical about the capacity of humans and other sentient species to do evil.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek
Star Wars is far more idealistic, evil is about power and a cynical leaders that do anything to get more power... Star Trek has a consistently much more unnerving portrayal of evil as a much more nuanced force that is often irrational and difficult to resolve into pure pursuit of power that it is always attracted to it.
Star Wars has different kinds of evil. It has YV, it has Killick hives, it even has drug addicted sects. In any case that's not the meaning of the word "idealistic" I meant.
Each of these series has parts that look like the Star Wars head. The Matrix probably is the most egregious. What else is good other than the first movie?