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Protesters blocked lane of SH1 at Wellington's Terrace Tunnel
(www.rnz.co.nz)
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this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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I totally understand people getting angry at this sort of thing... I'm 100% behind their cause, not so sure on their tactics.
But it's just a shame that people are not as angry about the inaction on climate change. The inconvenience caused by the protesters is a micro-fraction of the pain that climate change is already causing and will continue to cause.
The whole purpose of protest is to be disruptive. Protests that don't disrupt don't get anything done because you will never hear about it and you won't know about it. Who is going to report a protest that's indistinguishable from everyday life?
This is a much more immediate and tangible effect though. Climate change is much more abstract.
Is it abstract to people who have lost their relatives or their houses to weather events this year?
People don't think like that though.
A lot of people don't, no. And that's the problem.... which is why I was saying it's a shame. We are in for far more grief than almost anyone realises... the scale of the effects is well outside what most people can really imagine. And it can be avoided if we take concerted action.... even at this late stage. But we're not.
Only because there aren't enough protests. If we had more protests and caused more tradies to be late then they would think that way.
Maybe they should?
You don't get to decide how people think.
You can change the way they think by protesting. That's the whole purpose of protesting.
I don't see a measurable increase in extreme weather events as "abstract".
One of those things is numbers and statistics, one of them is right in front of you.
ok, you need to look up the definition of abstract, because numbers and statistics are, by their nature, not abstract.
Pedantry, my friend.🥱 You're missing the point.
15 min late and delaying 5,000 or so people is literally a number and stats
Not when it's your time being wasted
Besides, the delay caused would have been a lot more than fifteen minutes.
Article literally says started just before 8, taken into custody at 815.
And yes, they got delayed 15 min. A well paid trade makes what - 60-80 and hour? Assault charges are now worth what.... $15-20??? Can I now throw some around for a little less than dinner? For making roadworks? Because a meeting runs over by 15 min? There is no way to justify assault for a 15 min wait.
The delay caused by this would have been much worse than fifteen minutes, because this would have had a ripple effect all through rush hour.
And trades charge that much, they probably keep less than half of it as profit.
Are you a child? Because you seem genuinely ignorant of how the world works.
How much should we hate people who do road works or bicyclists or people who break down and cause delays. I am presuming you would support beating the shit out of them because you are a tradie and they cost you money and anybody who causes a tradie to lose money should be violently assaulted right?
Nope - mid 30s.
Delay would have been worse than 15 - but I bet this guy wasn't at the back of the queue.
Yes, less than that profit unless they are self employed. So therefore assault for even less than that.
Well aware, and can understand the context as well.
I can assure you self employed tradies still have significant expenses. I'm genuinely amazed you're in your thirties and still think like this.
Please list me which of those expenses accrue while sitting in traffic, and what costs justify assault with a vehicle and general assault.
Opportunity cost, happy. Opportunity cost.
Now stop asking stupid questions, I'm not your tutor.
Im sorry, opportunity cost? You mean what they gave up in exchange for that 15 minute wait? Literally the potential to make a portion of that $15-20 as profit? The happiness loss of a 15 minute delay? That is what you use to justify vehicular and physical assault.
So, let me go through this as I literally tutor opportunity cost - easiest way is to compare is divide what you give up vs what you get. I cant put happiness as a unit, so let's go time.
Assaulting a person with a vehicle. Got you through a protest at best 15 minutes early - after the argument possibly closer to 8 or so, but let's go instant result at say they were the first one and it got them through at the instant the protest started. You can argue plenty on the happiness gained from not being delayed, satisfaction of bullying someone, bragging stories over smoko, ego boost, but as I say no unit. They gained, at best, 15 minutes.
Now, looking at the summary of offenses act 1981 (113) S9 common assault, the maximum fine is 6 months imprisonment or a fine not exceeding $4000. Lets go half way, they got 3 months (12 weeks) prison, 12,960 minutes. They potentially gave up 12,960 minutes, and then have to go into the happiness discussion around missing kids and partners, loss of job, potentially loss of vehicle, standing in community, all that.
Gave up (12960 min) divided by what they got (15 minutes) - opportunity cost of 8064 what the got back from it.
It is worth noting that obstruction of public way is also covered in s22 - maximum fine of 1000 per person if not done for a good reason, and any good lawyer could argue climate change in real and possibly call self defense.. if not, assault carried a higher financial cost that the three protests combined.
Now, because you clearly threw out a word that sounded good but you have no idea what it actually is, ill analyse the result in context for you. This is what is known as a no-win scenario, and the best strategy forward its to pick the one that costs you the least. Best case is to sit the fuck down, keep your fucking hands to yourself like we teach kids, let the cops do the job we pay them for, and maybe consider for one second these people are doing what they are doing because those with the money, big tradie cars and no education don't give a flying fuck.
Tl-dr