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Was my memory wiped or was the Star Wars sequel trilogy just that forgettable?
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2025
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TLJ is second only to ESB.
the problem is JJ. he's creatively bankrupt. TFA was too unoriginal, hamstringing the whole trilogy. and the man can't end anything to save his life, and they gave him the conclusion to ALL OF STAR WARS.
TFA was perfect, it had mystery, and mystery, and mystery, and even nostalgia too!
It was only when TLJ explained some of those mysteries that suddenly all the pieces that looked like they weren't from the same puzzle, and some of them weren't puzzle pieces at all, and a few of the pieces were obviously colored with crayons by a confused child... That's when it suddenly fell apart through no fault of anyone other than Rian Johnson.
I'm pretty sure I've never been satisfied by the reveal of a single JJ Abrahms mystery, ever. I don't understand how he has such a career of failing upwards.
i think TLJ actually follows up on TFA excellently.
imo, the ST could have survived TFA's lack of originality if it had committed to the path TLJ laid out. but then fucking TRoS happened. D:
TRoS is the only SW movie i've seen only once. how sad that the final movie is the worst in the saga.
rise of skywalker is the worst movie I've ever seen... ever. It takes a lot for me to not like a film (I like almost everything). So when i say it was. bad, it was BAD
it is such a shame. i cannot believe they allowed that movie to be made.
What was the path TLJ laid out? It killed off the main villain and left the trilogy with very few story threads to pick up on in the third and final film.
it's a false assumption that Snoke was the main villain.
Snoke was just a Emperor re-tread. we've seen that already. having Kylo kill him off was perfect and brilliant because it allows the focus to be where it should be: on Kylo. it also reinforces Kylo's path to finish what Vader started and do something Vader failed to do: supplant his Dark Side master.
so forget Snoke. he's immaterial.
from TLJ into Ep IX we have both Rey and Kylo continuing to develop into their respective paths to Light and Dark, revolving around each other and each trying to resist the other's temptation.
First Order still exists. Kylo would have conflict within with Hux and they're still trying to conquer the galaxy.
The Resistance is trying to rebuild.
There's plenty to work with for years of back and forth between Rey and the Resistance and Kylo's First Order, and Knights of Ren.
And even if we still want Palpatine to return, I could roll with that. It was done in Legends. But it was done so lazily in TRoS.
First thing Kylo would do confronted with a weakened Palpatine like that is fucking kill him. XD That choice, though, would have been a great way to explore something new, like Sith possession and/or Dark Side Spectres, that haunt and torment Kylo.
TLJ is Act 2 of 3. we don't have 7 seasons of a TV show here. it HAS to move the story along, clear the board a bit and tighten the focus to where it should be: Rey and Kylo. It did that. But Disney/JJ got cold feet and didn't follow through.
Well yes, but wasn't the 7th film a reboot of the 1st? It doesn't matter whether it was a good idea initially or not, the point is that changing your mind halfway through about who the big villain is doesn't leave you with enough time to establish a proper replacement.
This is a third act story beat that happened during the second act. The reason why the Vader storyline works is because it has nearly three films worth of development before its big climax.
was is a "reboot"? no. it was just JJ being JJ and unoriginal.
no one "changed their mind". you falsely decided he was the big villain, when he wasn't. as i said, the focus, rightly, should be on Kylo.
it's not a "third act" beat. you're just making up a bunch of stuff because of your assumptions about Snoke. it was great precisely because it flips the script on what we've seen before (ie. Vader/Sidious), as SW has a habit of doing.
it just sounds like you want the OT all over again. just go watch the OT, we had that already.
when kylo struck down Snoke i jumped out of my seat in the theatre in triumph. it was bold AF and i loved it. it showed we had a real storyteller for once. the theatre was in awe. it was awesome.
I guess you watched some alternative universe version of the first two films, because Smoke was 100% the big bad until he was killed off. You literally just acknowledged him as an Emperor re-tread lol
him being an Emperor retread doesn't necessitate him being the big bad. it's just means he's evoking notes of a previous character.
we watched the same film. you just won't let go of your assumptions and let them tell you the story. instead, you're trying to tell them the story, and you can't make it fit. that's why it bothers you.
"Evoking notes" of the previous character...who was the big bad.
yes, Palpatine was. Snoke was not, nor was he beholden to be.
But you said J.J. Abrams was being "unoriginal" with The Force Awakens. In other words, copying the original film/trilogy. In the original trilogy, the Emperor is clearly the big bad and this is established in the first film. So if Smoke is the equivalent of Palpatine, as was also established in the first film of the sequel trilogy, he is clearly the big bad up until Rian Johnson kills him off prematurely. Your core argument here doesn't line up.
The emperor was a footnote in ANH. He's mentioned in passing like once or twice. The big bads of that film were Tarkin and Vader, not the Emperor.
here, let's try this another way.
in ANH, Luke and Han vie for the attention of Princess Leia, setting up an interesting love triangle! Luke even gets a kiss! so according to you, Luke and Leah can't POSSIBLY be related, since incest is gross and illegal, and it would ruin the love triangle.
so when it is revealed that they ARE brother and sister, did George Lucas betray the vision of George Lucas that was CLEARLY set up in ANH and thus ruin Star Wars forever?!
no, of course not.
Replying again with a strawman argument isn't going to convince me. Sorry champ.
it's not a strawman. XD lol that's literally reality.
just because something is setup, doesn't mean one is beholden to it in the future.
If it's "literally reality", I'm sure you can point to where I said this:
I don't recall ever mentioning Luke or Leia's relationship.
hey, i'm sorry this is hard for you to understand. good luck with life!
i think you're just drawing too many conclusions that are simply not necessitated. that's really the "core argument." you assume too much. none of what you think is necessitated to follow, is necessary.
just because JJ is unoriginal doesn't mean anything HAS to follow from that in the future, whatever his intentions may or may not have been. it literally doesn't matter because 1) we don't know, and more importantly 2) he wasn't given control of the trilogy or the second movie.
anyway, JJ never knows what's in his mystery boxes, he just sets them up as a narrative trick.
we needed a real story here, and Rian gave us that. sadly, some ppl couldn't handle it.
the most interesting thing about Snoke is that Kylo overcame him. that's it. he's a narrative stepping stone for the real focus: Kylo.
Rian is the best thing to happen to SW since Filoni.
Of course it doesn't. You also don't have to make a good film or try to contribute to a cohesive trilogy, you can just "subvert expectations" and apparently some people will worship you for it.
i'm glad you can admit now that Snoke was not beholden to be the "big bad." that's a big step for you.