this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2025
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So the problem with this is that it's falsely equating chauvinism and mysoginy with woke and feminism.
Feminist theory spans many different ideas, but at its heart is about creating more equity between the sexes. The motivating force of feminism arose at a time where women couldn't control their bodies, their families, or even their finances. Women could even get their own credit cards until 1975.
People will claim that it's different now and that everyone is legally equal, but systemically there's still a lot of work to do. The vast majority of the hierarchical control of this country are positions held mostly by men. From politicians, CEO, lawyers, judges, and even police officers, these are all mostly men and are increasingly becoming more conservative.
You can't create equity by pretending were all equals, but then ignore the fact that laws are being passed to control only one of the sexes.
The point it no amount of bigotry will ever end bigotry
bigotry feels good. makes people feel powerful.
Right, but the point is you're requesting bigotry with feminism and "woke".
Can men experience misandry? Can white people experience racism?
Because if you are part of the radfems who think those things are impossible then we are coming from two completely different realities here.
Yes, but to falsely equate misandry with misogyny or racism against white people with racism against say black people is idiotic. It requires someone to ignore hundreds of years of history and the systemic hierarchy of our current society.
While someone can be racist to a white person, white people are not being systemically disenfranchised as a minority. While someone can be mean to someone because they do not like men, men are not systemically disenfranchised by women, as women do not hold the positions of power in the hierarchy.
I very much doubt you have ever met anyone in real life who holds these beliefs as you claim them. More than likely you have projected that belief onto people who disagree with you, or are purposely obtuse when someone is explaining the difference between racism and systemic racism.
I hear these bigots every day in these communities.
I'm sorry, but the correct answer was that all bigotry is bad, and that we shouldn't make such long excuses to treat people differently.
Amen. What I hate so much is most 'woke' types just want to replace existing bigotry they disagree with it with their own form of bigotry.
They also love to ramble abotu power structures and hierachy... but what do they want to do about it? put themselves on top of that hierarchy so they can dole out punishment and reward to those they regard as 'loyal'.
They fail to realize that their fantasies of justice as just inverting the roles, not 'fixing' anything.
If you hear these bigots every day then you would easily be able to link an example for me to look at, right? Also ignoring the fact that Lemmy or really any social media platform is not an actual example of real life....
And when did I claim anything different?
And when did I excuse treating people differently? I simply rebutted your claims that conflated feminism with misandry, or your conflation of racism against white people with racism against minorities.
While we should treat people the same, the work required to do that differs between different groups of people based on our current social hierarchy.
at what point is the piper ever paid?
how can you ever make progress on these issues if there is a perpetual historical debt to be 'paid'?
I'm not responsible for slavery. It's totally bizarre and counterproductive to assume that I am. Anymore that is to assume I'm responsible for sexual crimes against women.
The people who did those things were responsible for them. If they are dead, well best we can do is forgive and move on and try to make things better in the future.
Also you're insane if you don't think women and minorities don't hold positions ove power in the hierarchy... and actively seek to re-enforce it. Power is not exclusive to white rich guys.
Lol, when you're done fighting the world's largest strawman we can have an act discussion. I never accut anyone of this?
You are pretending as if systemic inequalities are a thing of the past and ignoring the fact that these historic inequalities have modern consequences.
Minority does not mean non-existent........ The whole point of a hierarchy is that it only matters who controls the top of the hierarchical structure.
No, it's just almost exclusive to rich white guys...... It really makes everything fine as long as there's token representation. Got it.
I believe the poster is feminist and is saying "woke, feminist" facetiously and just pointing out a tendency of certain online spaces to subscribe to patriarchy but in the opposite direction.
I don't think so, it's increasingly common to conflate all feminism as misandry or claim all gender analysis is inherently sexist because you are viewing an array of problems through the lens of gender.
You can't subscribe to the opposite of patriarchy.....that would be a matriarchy, which doesn't exist in any modern western country, or arguably anywhere in the modern world.
This is the problem with equivocating misandry with misogyny. Yes people can be sexist towards men, but that sexism isn't the social norm, nor is it enforced through systemic or legal means.
a lot of modern feminist is a celebration of misandry and female victimhood, at least online feminism.
sexism towards men is a social norm. it's just a social norm that feminists are totally cool with
feminists generally don't think they should be discriminated against for their sex, but they also seem to have no issue generally discriminating against men for their sex, or feeling like patriarchal norms should only apply to men in their lives.
easy example is that women are disgusted by men watching porn, but see nothing wrong with reading erotica. it's bad/wrong ti idealize female bodies for sex, but totally cool if you do it to male bodies, apparently.
A lot of men's rights advocacy is just a celebration of misogyny and male victimhood, at least online.
sexism towards women is a social norm. it's just a social norm that men who use refer to women as females are totally cool with
I am a feminist, I am a married man. I'm not discriminating myself....
According to who? Most feminist believe that women should be able to make choices about their own body and sexuality, including participating in sex work. Youre just making shitty assumptions about a topic you have no education in.
I do rather enjoy the kind of feminism that abolishes these.