this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2025
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I'm not moving any goalposts, my responses are keeping in mind the original arguments of antinatalism, that sufferring is inevtiable and that all sufferring should be avoided.
The oldest writing on this (that I am aware of) is Sophocles's Oedipus at Colonus, written shortly before Sophocles's death in 406 BC:
Look at the examples given, something as simple as envy being defined as sufferring. Loneliness in old age? This doesn't seem to match how you are defining sufferring, and so our approaches differ.
Torture is temporarily painful and we all agree that's sufferring and not something you would choose.
Relationship breakups, especially one you didn't choose to end, can be difficult but many people would agree that they sufferred during and after a breakup.
The premise is that sufferring is an inevitablility which you seem to agree with but sufferring as you're defining it doesn't seem to be a guaranteed experience.
You could conceivably live your entire life and never experience something that you cannot escape and that you do not choose, not something that’s difficult or temporarily painful. You could even choose a peaceful death to wrap up your sufferring free life with the way you've defined sufferring, even if it's still unlikely it is a possibility, which goes against the original antinatalist claim that sufferring is inevitable.
Obviously sufferring comes in degrees of severity. I would never agree that not being born would be better than going through a breakup, or that its a moral imperative not to create new life because they might experience relationship difficulties.
However I would agree never being born would be preferrable to the death suffered by Hisaschi Ouchi, who was kept alive for as long as possible against his wishes so that doctors could study how extreme radiation poisoning would progress.
I respect that and have zero interest in your reasons, it is your choice.
It can certainly be dangerous, and I volunteered to moderate a space for discussion on the topic to try and mitigate some of that danger. To, potentially, reduce sufferring ;)