this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2025
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That is a very intolerant position. Therefore, by the logic of this post, people who say things like "They must be ridiculed, ostracized, outlawed and if they still won't shut up, they must be beaten senseless" must be ridiculed, ostracized, outlawed and if they still won't shut up, they must be beaten senseless.
"Suck it. If you wanna be a facist pos i'll fight you over it."
see? like that. you don't have to actually be a nazi, or advocate for them. If you think its reasonable to fight only against peaceful people, and that violent people should always get their way (lest we ourselves resort to violence (egads!)). I'm not sure I agree.
That sounds like a very intolerant position. According to the meme, I must now ridicule, ostracize and outlaw you. If that doesn't work, I'm supposed to beat you senseless, because that's what intolerant people deserve. Unfortunately, this would make me intolerant so someone is free to do the same to me.
^ This is me on my first day of learning to care about something.
That's how wars work, yeah. Someone attacks someone else, that person fights back, everyone condemns the defender and decries "both sides! Wah wah! Their defending themselves, how violent!"
So, you disagree with the meme?
It's not about tolerance. It's about conspiracy to commit genocide.
We all recognize that plotting and conspiring to kill one person is wrong. But somehow when someone starts plotting to kill a million people all at once, people like you come out of the woodwork and start hand wringing about freedom of speech. Conspiracy to commit a crime is not protected speech. Conspiracy to commit mass murder is not protected speech. Murder is murder whether you use a knife or the apparatus of the state. People who advocate for genocidal political policies should be treated no differently than those that plot to murder a single individual.
People like me who understand logic? This is about tolerance, and the paradox of tolerance.
People like you bringing your own bullshit baggage into the discussion and trying to derail it are the problem.
Bullshit. You are putting the attacker and the defendant in the same position.
Tolerance is a contract: if you break it, you're not covered by it.
Does that include if you break it by being intolerant of the intolerant?
The point was made already. You opted for not accepting it, that's ok.
Cheers
Ah, so you agree I'm right. If you break the contract you're intolerant. Therefore, if you're intolerant towards intolerant people, you're breaking the contract and are not covered by it.
Don't try applying logic here. There is a small sect of people who believe they are the majority (and therefore right), because their views are blasted on small social media sites. Sites that they went out of their way to find in order to confirm their feelings, viewpoints.....biases.
Not only is this thought process incorrect, it's also keeping them a prisoner to their own confirmation bias.
We should pity these simpletons.
Yes, the resolution to the "paradox" of tolerance is that (a) "the intolerant" is anyone that would deny human rights to any other human (b) the intolerant must be denied political power since they will use it to create an intolerant society.
Tolerance doesn't justify political violence.
However, defense of self or others CAN justify violence against the intolerant. The threat of increased stochastic violence due to inflammatory rhetoric is not as clear as a person stating their intent to kill and then brandishing a firearm, but both can be mortal threats. At the very least acts of political violence CAN be justified by the actor to a jury of their peers. Denying a political violence can ever be justified (I'm looking at you Bernie) ignores history and supports every authoritarian regime.
I'm not saying that the Kirk murder was justified, but ... I'd be willing to hear a defendant out as a jurist or jury member.
There is no resolution to the paradox of intolerance.
What you're providing is an excuse to be intolerant. You say "I'm allowed to be intolerant to this guy because this guy is intolerant", but whatever excuse you use, you're now intolerant, and you deserve whatever punishment you think intolerant people deserve.
There's no special category for "people who are intolerant, but only intolerant to those they view as intolerant". There's the tolerant, and the intolerant. If you are intolerant, no matter how good your reasons, you're still intolerant. Thus, the paradox.
Whatever happened to the right of self defense? For example, Charlie Kirk was literally trying to kill me. He was actively attempting to do so. That isn't hypothetical or allegorical. Charlie Kirk literally wanted me dead, and he was taking active material material steps to advance that goal.
If someone busts into my house and tries to kill me with a gun, I'm allowed to shoot them to defend myself. But suddenly when someone like Kirk wants to kill me and thousands like me, it's sacred protected speech just because he's chosen to use the state as a murder weapon.
"Literally"? Did he shoot at you? Or did he try to stab you?
"That isn't hypothetical or allegorical"? No? Did he try to run you over with his car?
"Charlie Kirk literally wanted me dead" I'm sure he had absolutely no idea who you were. He may have wanted a whole category of people that includes you dead, but he wasn't actually trying to kill you himself, and didn't know you personally.
"it's sacred protected speech just because he's chosen to use " Yes, when someone uses speech it's different from when they aim a gun at you and pull the trigger. Is that surprising to you?
I am not sure what you wouldn't get about immediacy of threat in relation to self defense. There are very clear reasons that self defense involving lethal force is restricted to the immediate act, and that some of those restrictions are loosened only within your home.
Killing someone because you believe they will kill you or cause your death at some point in the future is not an acceptable way for a society to function.
The resolution comes when you understand that tolerance is a contract. If you don't sign that contract you are not protected by it. Is that simple.
There's no contract, there's a social norm to be tolerant. And if you're intolerant you've violated that social norm. That includes if you're intolerant of the intolerant.
That norm only applies to the ones that follow that norm.
Right, so if you're intolerant of anybody, including intolerant people, you're not following that norm.
Wrong.
You tolerate the tolerants, I tolerate you. You don't tolerate tolerants, I don't tolerate you.
And by default, everyone is tolerant until proven intolerant.
Which means you're not tolerant, and people should not tolerate you.
Tolerance is not an absolute.
I tolerate them.
So, you tolerate people who are intolerant?
I tolerate that one.
No, I am tolerant of the intolerant. I believe they should receive all the same rights as I do: food, water, shelter, basic healthcare, UBI, etc. Political power is NOT a human right, it is a privilege and a responsibility. If you are intolerant, you don't get to use political power for any purpose. This resolves the paradox, preventing the intolerant from creating a intolerant society from a tolerant one.
Justification of (political) violence is really separate from the paradox of tolerance. Ideally, no violence would be required because none would be intent on and capable of denying someone else their bodily autonomy. Failing that, violence in defense (of self or others) is justified.
So you vehemently disagree with the meme because there's no escaping the paradox of intolerance?
I disagree with the "meme" but not for that "reason". Also, that "reason" is an untrue statement.
There is no paradox. Tolerance is a contract. Be respectful and be respected. Be kind and receive kindness. Be tolerant if you want to be tolerated.
Opt out of that contract and you will no longer be covered by it. You will reap what you sew.
If you attack someone, they get to defend themselves. You don't get to whine about them being violent against you. You earned that shit. And the rest of us get to laugh at you and applaud.
I know. I know. It's just so HARD to understand. For you.
Tolerance is not a contract. You're never required to sign anything and agree to the terms.
But, if it were a contract and not just a social norm, anybody who is intolerant breaks those terms, correct? That includes people who are intolerant of the intolerant?
Incorrect. Fuck off.
You know someone has a great and logical argument when they say "Incorrect. Fuck off." It's definitely not a sign that they have no argument at all and are attempting to avoid admitting that.
This isn't an argument. You deny the most basic foundation of human interaction in a functioning society, so you deserve no part in one. Fuck off.
I'm not addressing the "most basic foundation of human interaction" or anything. I'm addressing this pretend solution to the paradox of tolerance. You know, logic? Ever heard of it?
That is the most basic prerequisite to discuss this matter. You immediately failed it, and I have already dismissed you twice.