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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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Collapse
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This is the place for discussing the potential collapse of modern civilization and the environment.
Collapse, in this context, refers to the significant loss of an established level or complexity towards a much simpler state. It can occur differently within many areas, orderly or chaotically, and be willing or unwilling. It does not necessarily imply human extinction or a singular, global event. Although, the longer the duration, the more it resembles a ‘decline’ instead of collapse.
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Just a few years ago people were talking about how in the future mass migrations would happen because of climate change like it was some distant problem. Well, it's happening now and people are already being displaced.
I understand displacement is going to be a challenge, but let me offer some hope. Although it will be hard check out just how much land mass we have around the poles. It’s a fucking lot. For example you can take everyone in America and send them to Alaska and give them 1sq mile as land and still have a shit ton of land leftover.
If there were suddenly 10 million more people in Alaska, they wouldn't have homes, water access, food, heat, etc.
Building out those services takes time and resources, and the issue with mass climate migrations is they are coming sooner than governments are planning for and will sap resources.
That's not whet the user was saying, he was just giving an example of landmass proportional to a population to explain that mass displacement isn't an issue of space.
Obviously there are other challenges, and he's not even giving a solution, just a comparison of space.
But land area hasn't been a thing since the industrial revolution. The wealth of most nations isn't dependent on sustenance farming.
You are right, infrastructure will be the biggest limiter during this crisis I feel.
The problem isn't land, it's not even the ability to build infrastructure to support displacement, it's the will. Many millions of people would rather others come to harm than change a single thing about their environment or habits. Europe has the space and means to allow 500 million to immigrate, but they freak out about a fraction of that coming over under the most heart-, back- and breath-taking conditions. Instead of voting for everything and anything to be done to make a good life possible for refugees and locals alike, they will vote for parties that suggest those less fortunate be shot at the border. And that for even daring to escape their misfortune.
The only thing I'm happy about is that Europeans are starting to experience the inconveniences of climate change. Those minor inconveniences of "oh it's quite hot this summer", "darn, I may not water my garden with drinkable water", or even losing an insured house due to a storm, are forcing some to face the music. We in the west may huff and puff at the big, unstoppable, rolling ball of climate change that is coming towards us, but ultimately, we will have to adapt. No amount of conspiracy theories like "the government is burning down our houses to make smart cities" will protect the feeble-minded from what's coming.
I love that we will have to deal with consequences of our actions. The only way most people change is through crisis, and boy do we have a crisis heading for us.
You put that very nicely and I will agree with you! I tend to be optimistic about people being nice to others, but I think I’m the odd one out in that regard. At least in the general population
Even the worst case climate change models don't make most of Alaska nicely inhabitable. Sure people live there, but the winters remain cold, and summers short.
Alaska is just an example. There is plenty of land at the poles is my point. The other fellow is right though, the infrastructure isn’t ready and will be tough, but I remain optimistic