this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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I'm south african. My government has the means of production for electricity seized (they own Eskom which has a monopoly.) It is well known that while the regular person has to deal with load shedding, the government officials do not
Add the issues with South African Airways and I would not like all the means of production to be owned by the government
That's kind of the point of most people who don't think communism can function in current society, the government represents the people, right? So "the people" owning the means of production just becomes "the government" owning the means of production.
Which is why all "communist" states that have ever existed function identically to their fascist counterparts, because regardless of what you call it, the state owns everything.
I think most people (correctly imo) don’t see how a large enough company can operate without some hierarchy, which seems to run up against the idea of being entirely equally employee owned.
There’s always going to be leaders (manager or just someone who others listen to) That person necessarily has more responsibility and control than his peers and is justly compensated more (otherwise nobody would put in extra work, say, to train as an engineer or doctor)
That person has their own interests that don’t always line up with the company and may use their influence to guide the company in a way that benefits them.
Suddenly you have a worker class and a bourgeois-esque class.
Most people (incorrectly imo) think that the “unbiased” checks and balances in government counteract that.
If there’s another option that accounts for hierarchies in large employee owned and operated companies let me know…. please
EDIT: large as in number of employees
You didn’t present any ideas or solutions to argue against. There’s no argument happening here.
Nor are there strawmen because there’s no argument being made.
You said that there’s generally a lack of imagination with regards to this stuff and I was just sharing my opinions as to why.
How workers would own the means of production in socialism/communism without the government?
People expressing opposition to the military industrial complex get called tankies these days.
should be owned by the people
I trust those people even less
You mean by completely disregarding the power net and other social securities?
Trust me, you don't want those amenities in the hands of unelected greedy business men either.
Load shedding is still better than not having any electricity at all because it isn't profitable enough to manage the power net in your region.
At least the greedy business men have a business to run. The politicians just get bailed out and spend it on luxury cars
I think perhaps decentralizing the means of production would be a better path.
You live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, i.e. a liberal democracy where the bourgeoisie (owners of the means of production) dictate the laws.
State owned companies work for the interests of the ruling class, in this case the bourgeoisie, so you can bet it is subsidized by the people and the ruling class (and their businesses) benefit off it. (Socializing losses and privatizing profits)
If it was owned by say Elon Musk, it wouldn't be any different for the regular working class people. Only the relations between the bourgeoisie may change.
In other terms, he's at the more equal pig stage.
The working class should own the means, not the ruling class.