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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by PlanetOfOrd@lemmy.world to c/sciencefiction@lemmy.world

I'm not saying Empire is bad by any means. It's still entertaining. But I was shocked when the Internet burst my bubble to declare Jedi a joke and Empire the best. (btw, potential spoilers)

Why I don't like ESB As Much. There doesn't really seem to be any central thesis. Also, the protagonists lack any agency. The inciting incident is that they rebels are on the run from the Empire. I mean, obviously it's in the title. But you have Luke that gets a vision to start a training program to which he just says, "sure, why not?" And you have Han on the run from the Empire with a broken hyperdrive where they just kinda just chill and twiddle their thumbs for most of it, until they think they can hide out with Lando who turns them over to Vader (which, yes did have a lot of tension!). The final lightsaber battle is decent, but there doesn't seem to be much umph behind it until Luke's hand gets cut off. I think the story could have been vastly improved if Luke & Han had their plot lines interact, possibly Luke had a plan he conferred with Han about, and Han knew about this, and Vader knew Han knew about this, so then Vader was chasing Han to get the information...something like that. That would have raised the stakes. And the whole ultimatum Vader doesn't sound convincing or within character--there was nothing in Empire that supports the motive, so it's a payoff that didn't have a setup. Again, Empire is far from a bad movie. I've seen it many times and probably will again. But to me it just felt an "in-between" type of movie.

Why I like ROTJ. Yeah, there are issues. The whole Ewoks battle does turn into a Home Alone type scenario. I think the only reason why is that George Lucas fumbled the storytelling a little--that the bonds that hold the rebels together (with little in the way of armaments) are what defeated the empire with their colossal Death Star. And the characters did seem to start from a blank slate as if Empire didn't happen. But overall it carried the emotional weight I look for with movies. In the scene with the Emporer overlooking the battle for several minutes not a lightsaber is unsheathed but you can see the chess game unfolding between the Emperor, Vader, and Luke. And then the Dark Side wins, not through force of will, but through Luke's desire to do the right thing. The space battle, too, is epic. Some people critique that the Death Star being operational wasn't as big a twist as Lucas intended, but I don't think it was ever intended to be a big reveal. It was just another setback for the rebels that were already frantically trying to defeat an overpowering enemy.

Alright, time for the comments! XD

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[-] Pips@lemmy.film 4 points 1 year ago

There's a lot of complexity there for adults but they're really targeted at children, especially I - VI. However, I totally agree with you that the overanalyzing comes from adults. Some of that is from Legends canon feeling the need to explain everything and telling stories that go far beyond kids' stories. For example, my introduction to Star Wars was when I was 6 and picked up The Crystal Star well before I ever saw the movies, which was wildly age inappropriate (also...I know in hindsight how terrible it is but at the time it was my first step into a larger world). If my parents knew how that book read, they probably wouldn't have given it to me, but they knew Star Wars as something for older primary school children and older.

this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
33 points (74.6% liked)

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