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this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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Specifically you need to vote for Biden to avoid a Trump presidency. If you don't give a shit about who is president, then I don't know what to tell you. The realistic choice though is Trump or Biden and no one else is going to come close to having enough votes to get the Presidency, they'll only play spoiler at this point and split the vote one way or the other.
Commenting to emphasize this for the people who weren't paying attention in 2016. If you vote for an alternative to what would normally be your candidate, it's pretty much the same as voting for their competitor. That is, if you vote for a third party alternative to Biden, you're basically voting for Trump (and if you vote for a third party alternative to Trump, assuming he wins the primary, it's like voting for Biden).
If there are no candidates running who you are happy with, but there is a candidate that you think would be especially destructive, you should vote for that candidates main competitor. Otherwise you're contributing to the destructive candidate winning.
I voted for Bernie, and I love him, but I would probably vote for a cunt that I hate in hindsight to avoid Trump if I could go back. Not because I think it's the right thing to do, I just know that so many people won't do the right thing, that my doing the right thing actually becomes an overall negative. Ranked voting is the ultimate choice and would make this whole fucked up system so much better, but since the pieces of shit we call representation will never make that a reality here, the best option is to go with the lesser of two devils that you know the most idiots are going to gravitate to. Bernie should have won, but I know now that was never even possible and wish it had been Clinton.
Yep, I think you're 100 percent right. Counting wasn't my choice in the primary - I wanted someone more progressive and felt she had some other flaws - but I sure as hell voted for her in the general.
It's theoretically possible for a third party or independent candidate to win, but it's so colossally unlikely, we've never really come that close. From the Wikipedia article:
It's really a two party system, so the effort needs to be on getting the right candidate to win the primary. So many people stayed home rather than vote for Clinton that we ended up with Trump.
That sounds like a Biden problem, DNC runs a weak shit candidate that no one wants to run, if he loses they are to blame.
Sure, the dnc is to blame, but we lose
If liberals support the party's chosen candidate thats been forced on them then thats the outcome. It doesnt look like all that talk of 'push him left after the election' worked out so well
We also didn't have the whole government apparatus burnt down by a mental three year old. I know it's not a great choice, but it is a clear one.
Its only a clear choice for those afraid of change, that have a certain level of comfort which the status quo brings them
This is an incredibly privileged take
The privilege are the ones using marginalized communities as human shields to defend their shitty politicians
Go ahead and vote for your third party candidate that passes all your purity tests.
President Trump is the only realistic outcome of voting 3rd party no matter what pipe dream you might want to be real. Just don't act like its not your fault when Trump is President again and you find yourself living under a dictator.
Democrats voting for weak politicians will give us Trump, at this point Biden is a spoiler candidate.
My brother wake up. So many lemmings live in fantasy worlds where they believe that everyone can wake up tomorrow well informed and prepared to do the right thing. That's not reality. We can talk all day about what's the best moral candidate, but it doesn't fucking matter because at the end of the day, people are going to vote between one of two names they've heard before. 99.99% of Americans will never see your reasonings and explanations for why any given person is the best candidate, it doesn't matter how perfect your arguments are or how much evidence you have to back your claims, because you aren't friends with Rupert Murdoch, Mark Thompson, Brian Roberts, or any of the other handful of guys who completely control media information in this country.
Before I launch into a diatribe, I have a simple question that often works to separate rational arguments from articles of faith: What could someone say, what evidence could they give, to convince you that your assumption of the left as the problem in American electoral outcomes, is incorrect? Is there anything?
I live in NY. We’re unlikely to go red, and if we do, by some awful magic, there are bigger problems than my vote. I’m going to vote my conscience. And if I lived in a swing state, I’d vote for Biden. Though I will say, it’s getting harder to take people seriously when they keep blaming the left for their losses and not actually paying attention to their policy preferences. (I hope you realize Dem partisans have used this argument in every election of my lifetime…I’m 38.)
No party is owed one’s vote. It has to be earned with policies. The Dems couldn’t protect women (and other people with uteruses); I had to get my tubes removed to sleep at night when I visit family in the shittier states. When a mutual-defense pact fails to protect one of its largest and most powerful constituent groups, it naturally starts a slow collapse. Imagine where NATO would be if Russia bombed a German city and NATO “allies” did nothing. I used to make arguments like yours; I was a left-leaning Dem until my mid-20s. But in addition to the Dems’ repeated disappointments (repeatedly bringing policy papers to gunfights), climate change has made clear that there are times where selecting better or worse doesn’t matter, because both are inadequate.
None of you dumb 3rd party people has ever even heard of primary elections, I swear.
What.
I agree with you in that "we have to vote for Biden to avoid armageddon" is ridiculous. After all, we should aim higher than plainly "avoiding armageddon" because we see the Dems as an escape from the whatever the right see as this week's Boogeyman. The Dems don't care for social issues AT ALL, while still giving the rich and big corporations handouts.
At this point Biden is the spoiler