399
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
399 points (96.3% liked)
politics
19090 readers
4183 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
McCarthy helped create the environment in which he got motion-to-vacated but the trigger for it happening now was his willingness to work with Democrats in order to avoid shutting down the government. I don't agree with him on most issues but I recognize that some non-zero amount of bipartisan cooperation is essential for actually running the country, and in this case McCarthy did cooperate and the Democrats did not. I think that was both a moral error and a strategic blunder: US government dysfunction is visible to the entire world, the House is crippled until McCarthy is replaced, and whoever does replace him is probably going to be less cooperative than he was.
McCarthy reneged on a spending deal he made with Biden, and then refused to even allow a vote on a bipartisan spending bill proposed by the Senate. The only reason he worked with Democrats in the first place (at the eleventh hour, I would add) is because the alternative would have been a government shutdown entirely caused by the GOP -- and he probably still would have lost his job in the end. He's shown himself to be untrustworthy, uncooperative, and spineless when it comes to the MAGA wackos in his party; honestly, the only reasonable choice was to give him the boot.
That's all true, but the Republicans still have a majority - one of them is going to be the next speaker. Is there a Republican who is better than McCarthy? Does he have the support of his party? If not, are Democrats going to vote for a Republican?
Sounds like a problem Republicans caused for themselves. Why are they allowed to act like children?
IMHO the bar has to at least be someone who is not on this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Caucus
Also, just about any of the Republicans on this list would be better than McCarthy. The ones who haven't been ousted since, at least. https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/politics/house-republicans-january-6-commission/index.html
In the House, voting to support a speaker is not a one-and-done thing. The Speaker sets the agenda for the House sessions, but that agenda needs a majority to approve it, every single session. There is an underlying commitment that after the Speaker is elected, the members who elected him support his agenda moving forward.
Nestor's "dad" tried this route first, after the Debt ceiling "deal" (which McCarthy eventually broke, but that's besides the point). The next time the House met, the MAGAs started voting against McCarthy's agenda, and since the opposition party always votes to oppose that the House was also paralyzed, because the agenda could not be approved so nothing could happen. McCarthy made even more crazy concessions to get their votes back.
So if any Democrats supported McCarthy in this, then McCarthy would have had to count on their support from that point forward. And let's face it, even if McCarthy had promised stuff for those votes, who would trust him to deliver after the Debt ceiling bill went South?
I still think there's room for Democrats in this, but only after Republicans keep twisting in the wind. After their fifteenth (or fiftieth?) vote with no resolution, some Democrats and Republicans may agree on a moderate Republican to support. (It will have to be a Republican, as long as they still have an overall majority). But from that point on, that person will need to rely on support from that entire bloc that voted for them to get shit done. If that does happen, though, expect Nestor's "dad" to scream even louder about a Uniparty....
I understand the logic here, but I think it’s worth rethinking this assumption. Why does it have to be a Republican speaker? Why do several democrats need to be the ones to reach across the aisle? For many of the speakership votes in January, Jeffries (the minority leader) won the most votes. The democrats were united while the republicans were splintered. It seems just as reasonable to expect a handful of republicans to make a deal to support a democrat for speaker. It doesn’t matter how many republicans are in the house if they aren’t able to agree.
I understand your thinking, but elections do have consequences, and there are more Republicans in the chamber than Democrats.
I don't think Democrats are at all interested in seizing the Speakership while in the minority, because they want to be in the majority in the next Congress and dont want to set the precedent that a minority member can squirm in to the Speakership. Not do the Republicans want to set a precedent that the majority party can cede a key post like that.
That's a really good point - I didn't think that Democrats voting for a new, Republican Speaker was realistic, but if they're willing to do it then they can probably get someone a lot better than McCarthy.
Republicans have a majority in the chamber, even if they expel Gaetz because they are all sick of him and send him back home to be with his "son". Both sides understand that. So as long as they all show up, I don't think anyone expects a Democrat to end up as Speaker after all this.
Jeffries will be nominated, of course, and get all the Democratic votes, but will not become Speaker unless someone stages a Ted Nugent concert on the Capitol steps to lure all the MAGAs out of the chamber during the vote.
deleted by creator