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this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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Simply put, a lot of people hate socialism aka "I'm paying so you can get something for free". I'm all for it.
My 73 year old father supports Trump (not one of the crazy people, just misguided) and hates Biden. He said one of the biggest things that Biden did that pissed him off was student loan forgiveness because my dad said he had to work 3 jobs in the early 70s to put himself through college (which he dropped out of and went into the electrical trade), so everyone else should have to struggle like he did, regardless of the fact that college cost him like $2,000 a semester and it costs like $12-15 grand now, assuming you're not living on campus.
That’s such a sad argument. I heard a great counter to that line. Imagine we discovered a cure for cancer. This line of reasoning would say “well my mom suffered and died of cancer so why should others get a cure?”
My mom’s ghost would slap me so hard if I said that
Pretty much.
I can imagine those people saying this
Cancer is mostly random. Going into debt for school is a choice.
A choice typically made by 17 year old kids after having spent their entire life having it drummed into them that college is the correct step to take after school
Also 17 year old kids, the vast majority of which have never taken on significant debt and have no frame of reference for the scale of obligation they're taking on.
It blows my mind that we look at an 17 year old and, as a government, we say, "Alcohol? Too young and immature. Handguns? Too young and immature. Tobacco products? Too young and immature. Voting? Too young and immature. Enlisting in the military or want to take on 5 or 6 figures of debt that will drive your major life decisions for the next few decades? Sign here."
I guess you’re against COVID treatments too because coming in contact with other human beings is also a choice. Lung Cancer cure? No thanks, they chose to smoke those cigarettes so I would like them to suffer.
My mom died of Lung Cancer, didn't smoke a single cigarette her whole life. So fuck you.
I don't want them to suffer, but I'm not paying for their treatment.
I'm not trying to be spicy, but you must see how these two statements are contradictory.
No... No they don't lol.
If you have insurance, private or public, you’re paying for them either way. That’s how insurance works.
Nobody wants to pay taxes bud, but if you don't, the country will fall apart around you because of precisely that.
Big L take . Enjoy the ratio
What causes you to go to school? Generally a hope to fulfill your basic survival functions these days, like eating, safety, and temperature regulation. Are those needs choices?
And what causes having those needs? Being born. Was that one's own choice either?
I think this argument won't work well on those who came of age when a highschool degree would cut it, but it is logically rather sound based on present realities.
I'm a younger millennial and went to school and got a degree. No debt. It's a choice.
I love this argument. Absolutely no empathy for anyone who had different options and experiences, just straight up "I did it so anyone else can too." You're making the world a better place. /s
I can have empathy for people in different situations than me, but it's not my responsibility to bail them out of their problems.
What's your opinion on bailing out Mega Corporations who didn't responsibly save their money? Or is it ok to bail out Mega Corps but not ok to bail out your mechanic?
Well it is if you want a healthy society, other wise sure, every man for himself.
It most certainly did not cost him $2000 per semester in the early 70s. It cost about $2000 for a full year at a private university. Around $500 if he went to a public school.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_320.asp
And that's in 2007 money! $500 in 2007 converted to the early 70s is $90 to $100. Minimum wage was $1.60 per hour, so he would have to work 2 weeks at minimum wage to afford public school. 7 weeks for private school.
What a burden! He might have to give up part of his summer!
Yeah, maybe per year, I don't remember.
I hate that THAT is the argument against loan forgiveness. No one is making the actual argument - that this doesn't fix the systemic issues that caused the debt in the first place and will actually make it worse for future generations.
Student loan reform is what we need. Loan forgiveness without reform will cause tuition prices to increase for future generations.
It's millenials doing a "fuck you, gen z, I got mine" and we should be better than that.
Certain states are making tuition free for public universities if you meet their requirements, I know NY State is one of them.
Does he have any grandchildren? Sometimes people feel this way only about “others” and have considerably different feelings about how “we” should be treated.
Yep, a 3, almost 4 year old niece.
And he thinks working 3 jobs will be good for her, right? After all, he turned out great.
Remind him that as parents we're supposed to leave the world a better place for our kids.
Boomers didn't get that memo.
That's why this Gen-Xer is telling him to remind his dad of that lesson.