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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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politics
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Yeah. My eyes got WIDE open about the "function" of third-party candidates in the US after I saw in hindsight (because isn't hindsight always clearer?) Jill Stein's role in a prior election. They're basically there to shave off just enough votes from one of the major parties to tilt things one way or another. Easy for 3rd parties--no matter of they're crazies OR if they actually have legit policy stances that really should be considered, such as climate issues--to be turned into agents of chaos. People working the USA's political system from the outside work BOTH sides--the right and the left, pretending to be either one to sow discord as it suits their goals. The more division the better, for them.
I really want various ballot initiatives to succeed in changing how voting is done in the US, so you can safely vote for the candidate you actually want without handing the election to the worst candidate. Voting would be much invigorated if you could vote for someone with pride and enthusiasm instead of, "At least they're not XYZ" which is what has to happen now working within the rules our system has for us.
Here and there, a few states have implemented better systems with various flavors of ranked choice and such for their state elections, so they're not stuck in a two-party horror show for local elections at least, but there's a lot of hard work that has to be done before that gains enough momentum across many states and towns and smaller localities in the US that it might be feasible to change the way voting is done on a federal level.
Yeah if third party candidates were actually serious they would work to get ranked choice voting passed then run
That is exactly what the Forward party is doing. Their top political policy position is promoting ranked choice voting.
I have deep, intense skepticism of anything Andrew Yang touches or endorses
EDIT: Also look at the fucking wikipedia article for the "Forward Party". It's literally bankers and Republicans, if I wanted to ruin the country this sounds like a great idea
Why? I am curious why you are skeptical of him. He is literally doing what you suggested. Why are you mistrustful of him?
He's a naive idiot who thinks business skill translates into political skill (always amusing to watch those types toss themselves into the wood chipper of primaries), and he did a vanity/brand run for President in 2020, then basically publicly admitted he got rolled by Biden's team with his endorsement. Any of these is disqualifying. He doesn't know what he's doing, and he's not serious about it.
So you are mistrustful of him because you don't think hes qualified to be president. That is a reasonable rationale for distrust.
No one always knows what they are doing, that is part of being an imperfect human. That he admits it to some degree just means he is being honest about his skills and abilities and is willing to learn.
Anyway you are entitled to think someone is not qualified for president if you want. However, that does not disqualify that he is at least trying to do exactly what you think should be done.
He's surrounding himself with people so fundamentally untrustworthy that it absolutely needs to be called out no matter what he says his goals are
So why should I trust you when you call someone untrustworthy? You keep calling people names and that doesn't exactly lead me to trust you. Trust is in the eye of the beholder and your cussing doesn't exactly lead me to trust your viewpoint.
Objectively Yang and everyone on the list of 20+ notable member are more trustable to the general public than you simply because they are important enough to be mentioned by a Wikipedia entry. There are 14 democrats and 13 republicans listed on the notable member chart.
You don't have to trust everyone in an organization to trust that organization. I would rather support an organization that might be lying over 2 organizations that I know are lying.
Anyway, I understand your viewpoint and can respect it even if I happen to see it differently. Thanks for explaining your view.
Okay, I have deep, intense skepticism of any current politician.
No, its not literally bankers and Republicans. All you have to do is look at the Notable member chart to see that. It does have some republicans who have joined which isn't exactly a surprise since they are 33% of the country. As far as bankers, there was no mention of the word banker in the article so not sure where you're getting that.
Why are you cursing about an wikipedia article? Is it because you are angry at it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Party_(United_States)
"On July 27, 2022, the Forward Party announced that it had merged with the Serve America Movement and the Renew America Movement to further its effort to form a new third party named "Forward"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serve_America_Movement
"The Serve America Movement (SAM) was a big tent political organization founded in 2017 by Morgan Stanley lawyer Eric Grossman."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renew_America_Movement
"The Renew America Movement (RAM) was an American political group founded in 2021 by former staffers from Republican Party administrations"
If you give them money you're just giving Republicans money, full stop. I support RCV but I wouldn't trust any of these fuckers for a second. Knew that website looked way too slick
Got it. You think anything republican is impure therefore bad. Essentially you think to be good you must not associate with bad people. It is for or against. There is no grey area. You have to meet my purity test of not being a bad person so I can support you.
Sorry, but the world is not black and white. There is a gray area. The reality is that politics to the average person is no different than a rooting for team sport. By advocating for ranked choice voting you seem to be willing to step out of that viewpoint a little, but you still think all republicans are bad.
PS: when you cuss it just lets me know you are dehumanizing the people you are referring to. So I try to somewhat ignore that as I do not support dehumanizing people.
If "purity test" is not supporting the people and party who overtly supported the overthrow of the United States government and continue to do so, then yeah I use purity tests. Also I can curse all I fucking want
The people and party are two different things. There are 50+ million republicans. It is a mistake to assume that they all support what happened on Jan 6.
Most of them are probably just uninformed or misinformed and therefore support their team. Just because some republicans did actively support Jan 6 doesn't mean they all support it. Mostly, they just chose to ignore headlines because they do not like the cognitive dissonance it causes.
And the entities who encourage US 3rd parties as spoilers for the left are not limited to the GOP
The only third party I give any credence to is the Working Families Party. They'll run in local races while supporting candidates from other parties when they know they can't win.
I can certainly get that it feels like most third parties are there to siphon votes from major political parties and sow discord.
Funnily enough their is a third party for that. One of the Forward's main policy is Ranked Choice Voting.
They plan to start focusing on local and state elections as those positions make the election laws.
Indeed, there is lots of work to be done. You can volunteer with your state's local group if you think it is important. They have groups organized in 43/50 states.