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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Imagine if some proud boys from the US were attacking Canadian civilians, after Canada has been occasionally striking the US and being quite excessive in its use of force.
Then one day Mexico warns Canada that the proud boys might strike this location this week, so Canada pulls its security and guards, the proud boys attack, Canada loudly yells to everyone in the world "OH NO CANADA IS ATTACKING ME DO YOU GUYS SEE THIS SHIT?"
And then Canada proceeds to bomb the absolute fuck out of EVERY city within 10 miles of the border. And then the refugees that are leaving the cities. And then telling them "hey we promise we won't bomb you if you go this route" and then bomb that route. And sends troops into refugee camps in order to decide who is suddenly a proud boy...
The world, as usual when it comes to Israel though, completely loses its minds.
It's like everyone is so afraid of being seen as a nazi, they won't aim even the tiniest criticism toward a government/military. It strikes me as profoundly racist to conflate every Jewish person with the government of Israel, or that somehow Israel represents all jews. Imagine if I suggested Kenya speaks for all black people...
You got it backwards. It's not that they are afraid, it's that every Nazi thing you do becomes unimportant if you support Israel and yell "look, I'm not a Nazi, because I support Israel".
That's a huge, huge stimulus for support. Now if you've done Nazi things, Israel is your salvation. And if you haven't done Nazi things cause you're afraid, just get friendly with Israel.
They are basically selling modern day's indulgences.
And Israel, of course, endorses that via its puppet diasporan organizations and their moves like "anything but Holocaust is not a genocide, and if you don't agree, you're a Nazi" or "you can't be Nazi if you're Jewish" and, of course, "if you don't support Israel, you are not Jewish".
There's no use in analogising such a complex situation, it utterly fails to capture the situation or the context. You're also welcome to theorise whether or not Israel deliberately sought the deaths of 2000 citizens just to cleanse Gaza but that's a massive claim for someone not privy to classified knowledge.
Whether it sought that or not, it was awfully unprepared for the attack itself, but amazingly well prepared for all the followup military, diplomatic and propaganda actions. So I'm starting to think this is not a conspiracy theory.
Israel has conscription and it's the size of New Jersey. It's not hard for them to mobilize to whatever border they need to within hours.
True. Takes about 6 hours in a car from the most southern city (Eilat) to the most northern kibbutz in the north (Metula)
Eh, it's harder than you may think. I know they have a working system in place, but for most countries something of that scale is a problem not at all because of their size.
I'm not talking just about mobilization, rather about them quickly mounting the news on the massacre to justify their impending ground operation, and that operation itself being prepared so fast, and a whole US fleet with an aircraft carrier going to support them.
Just seems like something prepared beforehand, and it's politics and diplomacy, so that wouldn't really be a conspiracy theory, again. Maybe the massacre itself was unexpected, but the operation was planned, and the schedule was simply adjusted a bit because of this event.
Crazy that's a country only needs a little time to mobilise when they're a conscription based country. In the words of the IRA Israel only needs to miss once for Hamas to get an attack off. If all it takes for you to "start believing" something is a mere suggestion with no evidence then I have a bridge to sell you and about 90 conspiracy theories as well.
I'm not talking about mobilization, FFS.
What happened is not "missing once".
Further you just imagined something and heroically defeated the fruit of your imagination, I'll leave you to it.
K insane conspiracy theorist
Just go on.
This doesn't make any damn sense. No one elected the proudboys to run the entire gov. The Palestinians did with Hamas. You're acting like it's a small group, when it's not. A majority of Palestinians elected Hamas to represent them, and they support it.
Now you can have the debate of is Israel the cause and is this response equal or if this was all a setup to start the war, but don't act like Hamas is a minority and the people don't support them.
If I understand correctly, Hamas won their majority of parliamentary seats of Gaza's government despite only having 1/3rd of the population casting votes for them.
Source: this YouTube video by Task & Purpose (just found this channel and this video covering the conflict over the last few days seems remarkably unemotional and mostly unbiased.)
https://youtu.be/lbSFJaFuWU0?si=ITFEngYEbsySW1nm&t=28m43s
Also, that election was 17 years ago...
And a very significant portion of the population are children who wouldn't have voted in said election
Yeah but nobody wants to pick up a book.
In 94 we (royal) almost had peace. In '93 The Oslo accords promised Palestinians self governance in 5 years. Israel under Rabin and Abbas with the PLO had an agreement for Palestine to be run by the PA in the mean time.
I dk if it was more Abbas or Arafat but one of the two along with Rabin even pulled Israeli troops out of occupied Palestine and gave it back as part of the peace agreement, marking the most significant step towards peace we will see.
But then Rabin was assassinated in 95 by a zionist. Israel turns over to Netanyahu. Netanyahu refuses to meet with Arafat.
Oslo II fell apart as the US refused to recognize Hamas (who had popular support), preferring the secular Fatah (PA). Whats the point in holding an election if it wont be recognized anyways? Hamas doesn't enter the '96 race.
At some point Netanyahu starts funding Hamas knowing that he can also pit Hamas against the Fatah. Netanyahu will fund Hamas on multiple occasions throughout the 90's and 2000's.
In '97 the US declares Hamas a terrorist group, ending any chance of an election that satisfies the people.
Hamas wins the '06 election
You forgot to mention that, prior to Rabin's assassination, Netanyahu was part of Likud demonstrations that literally called for Rabin's death for making peace.
Oof. A friend of a friend who was studying in Israel cried when Netanyahu was elected and I feel like I increasingly understand why
Yeah. When I learned about that, I Was pretty shocked. The guy encouraging stochastic terrorism and succeeding in getting a PM murdered was elected PM, himself. Though, it makes his actions and the utter lack of progress towards peace make complete sense; it's willful.
@hassanmckusick @jj4211
And then it gets worse - https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/lbSFJaFuWU0?si=ITFEngYEbsySW1nm&t=28m43s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.