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submitted 1 year ago by snek@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Hamas’ brutal attacks in Israel on October 7 killed at least 1,400 people and the group took more than 200 hostages, according to Israeli authorities. In the wake of the assault, Israel launched an aerial bombardment of Gaza that Palestinian health officials say has killed more than 5,000 people. Israel also announced a “complete siege” on the enclave, withholding vital supplies of water, food and fuel.

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[-] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

how much fuel is hamas hoarding right now?

[-] burchalka@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

The agency, known as UNRWA, posted its warning on social media on Tuesday. The Israel Defense Forces reposted it and said that Hamas militants have more than 500,000 litres of fuel in tanks inside besieged Gaza.

[-] rbn@feddit.ch 16 points 1 year ago

That doesn't sound a lot tbh... If you calculate with 2M people there, it's just 0.25 litres per person. I don't think that would be sufficient to filter vast amounts of water.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 9 points 1 year ago

Also, why haven't the fuel tanks been destroyed in the strategic military focused air bombings? Obviously they've been identified so that they can be reported on

[-] snek@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

No, they just managed to get a good look at fuel tanks (but no information about the content)... and yet when they bomb "terrorists" in Gaza with heir super x-ray vision, they still manage to kill 40% children.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 14 points 1 year ago

I think this is simply a function of the asymmetry of the military forces involved. The Israeli military has full control of the air, long range artillery, modern western weapons. They can destroy any target they want easily.

Therefore any installation Hamas has that's separated from the population, will have already been destroyed in the early phases of the conflict 20 years ago. Anything they build that's away from population centers would be immediately destroyed.

Perhaps it's an unintended consequence but the emerging behavior is the only military installations that survive are near civilian populations. It doesn't help that the population density of the conflict area is incredibly high, with the majority of the population being children. Meaning there's children everywhere around every target. Because any target that's not around children would have been destroyed already.

And none of this has to do with the intentions of either side, it's just the asymmetric capabilities creating de facto emergent behavior. It's not that Hamas is trying to use human shields, they have no other practical choice. And before the exasperated brigade starts to dogpile me, this is just the reality of war, it's not an apology.

[-] snek@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

it’s just the asymmetric capabilities creating de facto emergent behavior

Yes, but you still need someone to pull the trigger, and then you need 10 other nations to say "it's the right to self defense" to make it okay.

It's might + intent, not one without the other.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because the government of Israel has asymmetric strength in this conflict, it makes them more responsible to move towards peace. Simply because they have most of the capabilities.

Blaming Hamas is completely valid, Hamas is a bad actor.

Blaming the Palestinian people is not valid, Israel the country with its asymmetric capabilities is the responsible one to bring the populations towards peace.

As the last 60 years of demonstrated, using your asymmetric power to just bomb a population into submission, might buy you a respite, but does not end the cycle of violence

[-] snek@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

but does not end the cycle of violence

Yep, and honestly I keep wondering what Israel was thinking. Did it think it could keep Palestinians from retaliating forever?

What was the plan for Gaza anyway? Leaving that bomb ticking rather than removing the siege (gradually at least) and allowing these people self-determination.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 10 points 1 year ago

Leaving that bomb ticking was exactly what was keeping Netanyahu in power.

[-] mwguy@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago

I believe there said they'll stop the siege if the hostages are released.

[-] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Ah yes as if they have the right to make conditions about people's lives.

The hostages are being freed one by one. Let's see if Israel stops genocidin' when the hostages have been released.

My bet is that it will not.

[-] mwguy@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago

Probably the location. A fuel depot would cause secondary explosions, and a large one. Israel attempts to mitigate damage to Innocents with its air strikes.

[-] probablyaCat@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Counting it towards to number of people is a little silly. Checking how long a generator can run off of a liter of fuel makes much more sense.

On top of that, not only are they hoarding, but they are also stealing what comes in.

[-] rbn@feddit.ch 9 points 1 year ago

I quickly googled some numbers, so no guarantee for 100% correctness.

Desalination uses about 3.6kWh/m3 of water. A generator can produce around 1.5kWh/litre of fuel. 500,000 litres of fuel would result in 750,000 kWh. 750,000 kWh would result in 208,333 m3 or 208,333,000 litres of water. That theoretically would allow you to create around 200 litres per person if you use the entire amount of fuel on water desalination.

But this calculation only works in a hypothetical scenario and not in a real life scenario. Distribution of the water to all the people will require a lot of energy as well, e.g. for tank trucks. And I think in an active war zone you probably won't find world class logistics.

Furthermore, you also need fuel and electricity for other critical infrastructure: firetrucks, hospitals, phones, cooking, ...

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

Why would anyone believe their estimates? They've been dropping bombs on civilian houses claiming they're havens for terrorists and didn't even see an attack that appears to have been prepared for completely out in the open. Their vaunted intelligence services seem to be more the result of a good branding campaign than actual competence.

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this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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