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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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That's the Israeli way, choosing a hard stance that makes things worse long term. That helped provoke the Hamas attack in the first place.
Oh poor Palestinians had no choice but to kidnap, rape and murder over a thousand people. Israel provoked them by bombing them, afterwards. Provocation in hindsight or something.
Run an apartheid regime and be surprised the second class citizens react violently.
Right, there was never any aggression from Israel onto the Palestinian population prior to Oct 7th 2023.
Oh, poor Israelis, all they were doing was conducting a genocide of an entire people for 75 years, all this death is totally unwarranted!
I refuse to feel sorry for any Israeli killed by anyone, so long as they're hellbent on wiping Arabs off the planet. Those babies that were killed were just future IDF soldiers, waiting for their chance to put a boot on a Palestinian neck and a bullet in their brain.
There's a good chance Israel killed their own babies too.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
I hope you see the irony of your comment. You do see it, right? I'm not gonna say you're wrong, because you're not. But you know what? Hurting your oppressors feels so good. And it's better to die on your feet with a gun in your bloody hands, then laying on the ground with a boot on your neck.
I was going for a simple reply, that neither atrocity makes the other right, something which cuts both ways since historic times in this matter - but that statemrnt of yours, that's off the deep end.
Frankly, the very notion of someone who "feels so good" killing babies, it disgusts me.
Israel is really in the drivers seat of this conflict though. You can imagine a reality where they had opened borders with Gaza and given them voices in the government. Where they're all these foreign funds for to build schools and libraries and pumping in tvs and video games and internet and helping keep the streets safe, and where it's much harder for a kid to say "I'm going to join a millitant groups" and where, even if Palestine is fighting it, we're moving towards peace. There's still violence from time to time, but it's declining.
You cant imagine the same story with Palestine. They have no power in the current relationship to give anything to Israel afaik. They can't build schools there even if they wanted to. So (to some extent, and acknowledging that it's horrible horrible horrible for the people involved) the lashing out isn't surprising there. It's not good, but also not surprising. The two atrocities are very very different (imo).
I admire your optimism, I really do. When imagining a reality where Israel opens its borders to Gaza, what I see is Israel descended into a warzone - hundreds of thousands of dead Israelis, slaughtered in schools, homes, streets and hospitals in the name of muslim holy war, jewish genocide and the mantra of Palestine "from the river to the sea".
It's an entirely different situation in the West Bank, which some might consider odd, given that Gaza has essentially been a sovereign state, whilst the W.B has been under tight Israeli control. The W.B Palestinians have amongst the highest living standards in the entire Middle East, with schools, universities, internet and TVs. Indeed, it is quite possible that the situation in Gaza would've been far better had Israel not withdrawn in '05, but it is hard to make predictions about alternate timelines.
I think it has been very clear what Israel wants from peace, in fact they've already made it once, with Egypt. In exchange for recognition, the promise of peace and a few other concessions, they ceded an area of land larger than modern-day Israel.
That is the key point that palestinian leadership has never been willing to offer in negotiation - recognition of Israel (as rightful owner of its territories) and the promise of peace (officially renouncing any claims over those same territories).
Yeah but pals have been offered peace and a state from the beginning. They are at war because they have declared war against the existence of Jews. They deserve to die at this point
So you don't think there should be any Jewish state when they're are dozens of Muslim states and are against Israelis defending themselves. You are a fascist
Don't you dare blame the Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, you sick antisemitic fuck. Take that nazi propaganda out of here. The only good nazi is a dead nazi, and you and everyone who thinks like you should be lined up against a wall and shot.
Israelis are the worst at genocide then, given how much Palestinian population is growing.
All the people that never had a word to say in defense of Palestinians in the decades prior, who as of Oct 7 are experts on the region and know exactly how Hamas appeared out of the clear blue sky that very morning, while Israel was sending shipments of marshmallow dreams and unicorns to Palestine for the decades prior.
You sound like you're 12 and have no knowledge of the history of the conflict, just yelling slogans with the mob
Then read my full comment history, I understand it far better than you. And don't reply, because I've read enough of your comments already.
Yeah right,.
Simple question, do you think Jewish people should be free to live in the land to which they are native?
Simple question. Do you think Palestinian people should be free to live in the land they were violently expelled from in 1948?
They were expelled because they started a war, Israel accepted the partition whereas pals did not. Israel was explicit they did not want to displace anyone. Many arabs live in Israel to this day. If there was no war there would have been no expulsion.
Pals have been offered states numerous times and even offered right of return for some refugees with compensation to the rest.
And even though you did not answer my question I will answer yours- no I do not think the arabs who were forced out in a war and who have been fighting a war since then should be allowed back en masse when they openly say they wish to destroy Israel. And if you want to re visit past injustices to say there are some arabs who should return, have land given back, then you also need to consider the Jews which were kicked out of the west bank like from Hebron and the Jews which were kicked out of Arab countries and of course the Jews which were kicked out of Europe. If you launch a war, lose , you can't ask for a do ever where you get everything back and keep everything you took, it is ridiculous. At the outset the Jews were willing to accept a tiny state, that they were fleeing from the Holocaust, that Jews were living in refugee camps until 1948 when Israel was established. That Jews are the natives of the land, were making it prosperous, are integral to the history, and the arabs sided with the Nazis in WW2. They are truly disgusting, is it really so horrible to live around Jews , in their native land. You think the fact the pals had to move 50 miles down the road is some horrible injustice ?
From the start of the conflict and throughout the modern era Israel has always been willing to live in peace with the pals despite their belligerence making numerous offers. Jews never asked for welfare like the Muslim immigrants coming to Europe, they developed the land and caused many arabs to come. It is the pals who have belligerent, following fundamentalist islam saying there can be no Jewish state, everywhere has to be a Muslim state.
OK, so by your same logic, if Egypt had a huge turn of heart, suddenly plowed through Israel, expelled all its residents, they wouldn't have a right to return either, right? Let's even say Israel started a war first, and then that happened. That'd be OK by your standards, right?
Not to even imply your standards are correct, because they're fucking horrific, you're trying to justify ethnic cleansing.
You might be thinking of Lehi, the pre-Israeli militant group that got incorporated into the IDF.
No.
First of all Egypt has fought many wars against Israel.... It is after Israel defeated them that they were willing to accept peace deals.
And what you fail to grasp is it is the arabs who started a war, tried to destroy Israel and kill Jews, and since they are dangerous were forced to leave and since they openly say they wish to destroy Israel are not allowed to return. Should Israel let them return to destroy Israel ?
You don't seem able to accept the fact that from the outset Jews were willing to live in peace with arbas and the Muslims were not. No matter how far back you go- you can go back to 1948, you can go back the ottoman and Egyptian caliphates which had discriminatory laws against Jews. You can go back to ancient history and look at the fundamental aspects of the religion. Islam is a fascist religion, it says to conquer the entire world in the name of islam. That just like in Iran and Gaza that they kill gays, they kill a woman who doesn't cover her head, that a small group fundamentalists control the entire economy and use every resource for terrorism, so to should it be in the rest of the world. The modem state of Israel is not government by religious Judaism and if it was, Judaism does not say the entire world needs to be Jewish.
Islam is fascist, that's why there is this conflict along with all the other conflicts they have with many nations, with the west, with India etc... With themselves with shia and sunni...
Wish blocks on this site worked the right way.
Hey I appreciate you took the time to respond and at least make arguments, you have more intellect than 99% of the site which isn't saying much
But you have far to go, if you want to increase your intellect you have to accept facts and truth even if it challenges what you have as an established belief. That is why you have a hard time to debate me, because I have heard the arguments and adjusted my views many times.
You should ask yourself why you are such an expert on the israeli-pal conflict and probably don't know as much as the complex histories of Lebanon, syria, Iraq... All the sectarian violence, expulsions, terrorism, oppression etc... what happened in Lebanon when they tried a joint Muslim christian nation. Or the entire continent of Africa, you'll find that the pals are really not the greatest tragedy of humanity and yet it is all the UN seems to be concerned about, all the slogan yelling mob cares about.