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this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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Fuck Cars
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I think that's more accurate. Vehicles big, small, tall, short, electric, or gas powered... makes no difference. There's no greater risk to pedestrians than multi-ton moving vehicles.
EDIT: Guys, I didn't mean one size car vs another doesn't make a difference to the safety risk of pedestrians. It absolutely does. I mean that vehicles around pedestrians are a risk to pedestrians, regardless. This is #fuckcars, right? Stop all the down voting.
This is defintely true but id still much rather get hit by a toyota corrola than by an f150, chevy tahoe or other 4+ foot high hood height vehicle.
Shorter hoods a person will roll onto the car, taller hoods push people under the car.
I get where you're coming from, but without context your point comes across as more of a "all cars are dangerous therefore we shouldn't bother regulating oversized SUVs" rather than the "Yes SUVs are particularly dangerous but let's keep in mind that all cars are dangerous" that you were aiming for.
Oh, geeze. Yeah, I really didn't intend for it to sound like the first part. I 1000% believe that larger vehicles NEED to be regulated, like yesterday.
Not true, there's a lot of differences between a car and a ute/suv. The high, square bonnet of a ute both makes it harder to see pedestrians and makes it much worse when they do hit. Cars are designed to hit people on the lower legs and toss them onto the bonnet, while utes hit people on the upper body and knock them over so they end up underneath a moving vehicle.
Cars aren't great, but they're so much better than utes and suvs.
Of course, a larger vehicle is more dangerous, but all moving cars and trucks are still a risk to pedestrians.
People were being hit and killed by regular cars way before these monstrous SUVs and pick-up trucks became more popular.
Pedestrians shouldn't be hit by either.
You are correct, and I agree with you, but it's still incorrect to say there is no difference when research shows there is. I understand what you're trying to go for, but stating false information won't help to convince people.
Even if the number of cars on the road remains the same, but utes and SUVs were swapped to lower vehicles (when possible), then there would still be positive outcomes of fewer pedestrian fatalities (even if the number of accidents remains the same) and reduced carbon emissions.
Removing most cars would reduce these even more, which I assume is your desired outcome, but even just reducing the proportion of utes and SUVs would have positive effects
Just to clarify, I said "no difference" in that "big, small, tall, short, electric, or gas powered" vehicles ALL cause severe injuries and death to pedestrians.
I'm not trying to argue that there's no measurable difference in the amount of damage a larger vehicle can cause vs a smaller one, as I completely agree that there is.
My point is that they are all too dangerous to be around people, so a fatality by a car is “no different” than a fatality by an SUV.
I agree that a fatality by a car is no different to a fatality by an SUV. But I would say that there is a difference in accidents involving cars vs SUVs because the fatality rates differ, which is what is being discussed.
I might be misinterpreting your argument, but my understanding is that you're saying because both cars and SUVs can cause fatalities, they are all too dangerous to be around people. But many things can cause fatalities, even bikes. We'll never be able to reduce accidents entirely. But there's a rate at which the fatalities become too high compared to the benefits. So that's why I believe talking about the rates of fatalities is more useful than talking about whether something can cause a fatality at all. In this case, I think your acceptable rate for fatalities is at a level where all motorised vehicles clear the threshold, so that's why you're saying there's no difference. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Replacing tall-fronted vehicles with short-fronted vehicles would reduce fatalities, which is why I believe there is a difference and we should try to do that where possible.
It does make a difference. A high frontend vehicle increases the severity of the injury in a low speed hit.
That’s actually surprising. I would think damage to lower extremities (delicate knee joints) would be far more severe from a concentrated impact area than a large area impact distributed over the entire body - when it occurs with a low speed impact.
Lower-fronted cars may cause more severe lower body injuries, but likely cause less severe injuries overall because the point of impact isn't the torso (which is where humans keep a lot of their important bits and bobs).
I guess that’s the question. For low speed impacts the body is pretty well protected compared to the lower extremities because the energy of impact is more readily absorbed without serious damage.
There's nuances here, but in principle you are incorrect. A car can be assumed to be infinitely heavier than a pedestrian. That means that every part of their body that's in contact with the car will be accelerated to car speed. So it's not that with a larger area the force is spread out, there's actually just more places that have force applied. In other words, a low car will break your legs, a high car will break your legs and torso.
I tend to agree with you, of course, but I wonder if the large study were re-run with mass as the cause it would show similar distribution against the 6000lb+ vehicles. Mass tends to reduce braking deceleration and I didn’t see that as an explicit parameter. The “cause” is more salient to the second, smaller study which shows the “kneecap and hood carry” physics reduced hip and head injuries compated to the “body block and throw” mechanics of the flat- fronted cars.
Not to defend the Mack-Truck styling - I don’t disagree at all with the smaller impact study - I question the original implied hypothesis that the prevalence of large flat fronts as the cause of increase in deaths following the nadir in 2009. Of course anecdotes are not evidence, but I live in a college town and have since 2000 and the actions of pedestrians have changed substantially over the years. Specifically, the advent of smartphones has resulted in risky behavior both in pedestrians and behind the wheel. In 2009 less than 20% of phones were “smart.” Few of those were connected to the internet and fewer still to social media and entertainment services. Since then, the prevalence has increased to 80% and the consumption of media by orders of magnitude (measured by data usage and hours engaged). The original study implies the increase in pedestrian death solely due to nose geometry, but the quantity of impacts and conditions may not be as causative as the article seems to claim.
It makes a huge fucking difference.
A train fits that statement too. So do planes. And boats.
Big thing move fast hurt when hit. Thats not whats being discussed, tho, cause we all inherently understand physics.
Trains run on tracks, and you can't get hit by one unless you put yourself on those tracks.
I'm not aware of pedestrians and cyclists getting hit by planes. I'd be interested to hear about this trend.
Boats aren't typically found on city streets, and pedestrian fatalities involving boats is how common?
City and suburban streets should have fewer cars on it, not more. These are pedestrian areas, and perhaps we can learn a thing or two about how to actually prevent pedestrian fatalities by looking at European city planning and design.
Is this the fuck cars sub? Or the fuck reading sub?
Why the fuck would you come into a community called 'FuckCars' and try to defend cars?
If you think anything about my comment defends cars, you need to find a community called "kindergarden reading lessons"