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this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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THE POLICE PROBLEM
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676 users here now
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Hi! LiberalGunNut™ here!
How do you know America's armed citizenry hasn't kept us safe from state violence? Hardly a thing we can measure. But I'll remind everyone, fascism isn't coming, it's here. Today. How much bolder would these people be if they knew every household was unarmed? FFS, the GOP frontrunner for the nomination to President of the United States just promised to root out "vermin" such as myself. How threatened do you need to feel before you pick up a weapon, learn safety, learn to fight?
I invite you to read about Ruby Ridge and Waco and how the authoritarian authorities (heh) responded and how they dialed that response back in following events. Anything like Waco since? Like many of us, I decried the lack of force when the redneck nutjobs took over in Idaho. Apparently the feds learned a thing or two about public use of force.
Saw a video last year of Iranian Jihadis running and gunning down a residential apartment block after the mass protests. Would that fly on your street? Why or why not?
Read a man's testimony from the Hamas attack on the music festival, "All I could think was how could I fight back. I felt so helpless."
But your questions have some meat on the bone, and they must be answered candidly.
When to shoot back? As soon as you can manage once the door explodes off the hinges. I don't care if they're wearing a "bad guy" hoodie or a uniform, once that shit goes down, your personal extinction, and maybe that of your family, is on the line. If at all possible, and I likely won't get the chance at 3AM, I'm shooting back. I have a Colt 1911 .45 on my desk (or my nightstand) and a 12-gauge pump leaning against the bed. Why those, out of all the guns I own? Because I'm best at putting steel on target with those.
To put a finer point on your question, had I been a bystander, would I have shot George Floyd's executioner? Not at that time. But I might now.
How do I expect that to play out? My death, probably sooner rather than later. But at least I made the choice to defend myself and others. If you do not make that choice? I respect that, I honestly do. It's expensive, it's hard, it requires practice and more practice, but it's on you if you choose "harmless".
EDIT: I should disclose for context, I am not a young man. My life isn't worth what it was 30-years ago, so I can see young people not feeling so "self sacrifical". I've also seen some shit, from a home invasion on Christmas Eve to a bear invasion (that one's hilarious) a decade later. I've also seen George Floyd executed in public, and I've seen the Capitol of my country overrun my nutcases.
No problem, you all regurgitate the same propaganda anyway.
You're just accidentally admitting that the pro-gun community can't prove it's favourite talking point.
Not at all, as demonstrated by most other countries. After all, nothing makes angry violent men bolder than a gun.
Then either shoot him or fuck off.
"Learning safety" and "learning how to fight" are not requirements for buying a semi-automatic weapon in America.
The pro-gun community opposes even basic competence checks, let alone the 6 months of military service they'd need to be provably effective in your fantasy war.
But isn't it just fascinating that nobody in the pro-gun community is learning how to fly drones, build a communication network, tend to peoples wounds in the field or anything else that would be useful in a war?
The US Army better watch out or the morbidly obese militia will be waddling after them.
Damn, those things must be happening all the time in countries with gun control since guns are the only way to hold off authoritarians.
And do you openly advocate selling cheap, legal, semi-automatic weapons to those Jihadists?
Did he try selling Hamas even more guns? I'm sure that would have fixed it.
Congratulations on your poorly secured firearms, we're all really impressed.
Oh well if you might have saved someone from state violence, I guess all the school shootings, life-or-death property crime and murdered partners are worth it.
You haven't killed or intimidated a single fascist politician, corrupt cop or far-right terrorist, instead helping them every step of the way.
But don't worry, you're not "harmless" as long as you keep harming children, minorities and abused partners by selling them to guns they use to kill them.