250
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
250 points (98.4% liked)
Technology
58970 readers
3699 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
In this case, it's not a lack of engineers. Taiwan leadership burned through their staff too quickly.
I've run into that a lot (mostly with India, but I'd assume it's Eastern society as a whole). Leadership isn't used to being questioned. There's a very clear hierarchy that must be respected at all costs. I think it comes from the caste systems possibly. When US engineers roll in and propose changes, they're dealt with swiftly and brutally.
(If you want to get philosophical about the culture difference, it's why the US comes up with big ideas, and why Asia is so much better at execution).
There's just an expectation that workers march in lockstep to the death, and US workers simply, culturally, are not like that. Especially not when they have valuable skills they can get paid for somewhere else.
Go look at Glassdoor for TSMC, it's not a pretty picture.
The US has enough engineers...no one wants to pay for them or put up with their whining.
It's more than that. TSMC expects American workers to operate under Asian expectations which is long hours for lower pay. They can't keep American workers b/c they just say no and work for the competition.
Whenever a company says "lack of skilled workers" or "labor shortage", just assume that it's corporate newspeak for "we are entirely unwilling to pay what the market demands for those skills".
If they really wanted more skilled labour, then they'd hire entry level people.
Shockingly, that doesn't happen. Huh!
Chang has been a throat slitter from the beginning. But the problem is lack of available engineers. TSMC even commented on that risk before breaking ground. They warned apple about it in 2018, even. This has been a know risk, and now there's a fab that will be waiting for staff rather than the other way around like it normally is in Taiwan.
If the US was smart, they'd offer targeted VISA programs for industries that have historically exported engineers rather than importing them. But that's a whole other incentive system with its own political issues.
I'm no industry expert, but I'd assume there's also a shortage of other things necessary for a chip fab as well. Machining, component parts, etc. It's not just the chip fab but also the local supply lines and economic infrastructure. That all has to be established from the ground up in AZ whereas it already exists in Asian locales like Taiwan, Korea, and China. Economist Noah Smith has been hammering about this for a while - he calls these network effects "agglomeration"
The wafer equipment market has more US roots than the fab market, as many tools are designed here (even if built in Asia). Their supply chains are different than TSMC/Samsung and less localized to "home country only". Also, TSMC was bringing their supply chain with them for AZ.
I think ASML has already supplied the tooling for the factory, and GlobalFoundries has open headroom for substrates. It's almost guaranteed that there's some delays in other tooling, but supply for the factory is ready to go. The longest delayed parts are already installed.
Can't say I'd be stoked to live in Arizona considering the recent heat wave either.
maybe I misinderstand your meaning but at its heart the real problem is that chip engineers salary has been stuck at ten years ago for about twenty years. Like 50k usd.
This in and of itself is not a huge problem but with no downstream opportunities there isn't enough talent considering a career toward the top of the value chain.
The 1980s and 1990s saw alot of people come back to Taiwan, but the 2010s and 2020s sees it happen in another direction (mainland, the salary is awesome).
Of course many will say factory workers don't need to smart enough to do design. but IC production is complicated and needs skilled labor with some understanding of what they're doing.
I've always heard Intel was bad to work for. I have to imagine that's if it's worse under tsmc, then of course people won't work there.