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Lemmy users lack nuace and it stops actual discussion.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2024
442 points (84.6% liked)
Unpopular Opinion
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IMO, it's anywhere that has a voting system in place. Every forum has a hivemind, but the hivemind is especially reinforced when fake Internet points are at stake. That, and moderators yanking comments they don't agree with.
Its not about the points, its about the weighted value.
Higher point posts go up higher snd are seen by more people. Lowering posts makes them less prominent.
You can go for a system of whoever posts first gets their comment to be first, leading to people rushing low quality crap to be at the top. Or most recent comment first, giving you a shit experience like browsing a discord for information. Or random post order, where high quality content gets buried under a sea of shit.
Ranked voting is the best option we've found that works online so far.
Personally I downvote shit all the time if i feel its not more worthy than other content. Everyone should be judging posts according to their own metric so we can average out content across a communities views.
The system was a lot more useful when it showed up votes and downvotes separately. I was stoked when Lemmy came out and that was the default display. Now they seem to have removed that even as a user config option, which is very disappointing. People perceive something with 20 downvotes very differently than they do something with 380 upvotes and 400 downvotes. Showing an average skews people's perception and helps create a hive mind response approach. People don't want to reply if their reply might be controversial, because it looks like they're just being shouted down. And then people who agree don't want to respond and say they agree, or they're just jumping into the fire with the first person.
I still see separate counts in the web UI. And I agree that separate counts are essential information. I think the level of discourse on Reddit dropped significantly when they hid the separate up/down counts.
I think the config option is set per instance. Some of them have it, some of them don't. And then a lot of the popular apps don't support it, even if your instance has it.
There is no option like this, it was probably changed in the app you are using.
I checked the website too, and it was combined. I checked again just now and it's not combined. Weird! I have instance hopped a few times, so it must have been whatever instance I was on at the time.
Ah I believe lemmy-ui only shows seperate counts if the post actually received any downvotes.
I 100% agree that this is how it should work, and it doe work in more objective communities, particularly tech-oriented ones such as troubleshooting. The issue lies in subjective conversations, where people are debating their opinions, especially politics.
If the vote counts were hidden, it likely wouldn't be an issue. But in practice, it turns conversations into an opinion popularity contest if the topic is of a more subjective nature (I'm right, you're wrong, yada yada).
The other important metric to this is that a significant number of people simply lurk with no interaction whatsoever. While participation is key to determine a proper weighting of content quality, it's not like there's a mechanism for forcing participation. And if there was, a good number of people probably wouldn't even bother if there were such a requirement. Ultimately with link aggregators and microblogging, people just want to consume content (including comments) while keeping to themselves.
I was really hoping we'd leave that behind when we stopped totalling them up.
Both the web interface and various apps still have the functionality in place (though I think the individual user can disable it). I think that since a lot of Lemmy users are reddit refugees, the mentality carried over unfortunately. That said, hiveminds and echo chambers are kind of human nature, so it's pretty hard to escape; ultimately it's on the individual to either fall in line or ignore it.
Karma is removed in 0.19, curious where you still see it. Anyway its impossible to calculate correctly for remote users, because there is no guarantee that the local instance has fetched all posts from that user, and all votes on those posts.
The web ui shows your total karma?
Ah maybe not total but separated, still though, simple math. I'm on Voyager more than my desktop so I don't really see the web UI very often.
Go ahead and try to add up my my comment karma lol.
ETA: if your app shows an aggregate this is because it wasn't removed from the API. This is an oversight as noted on the github.
The Boost for Lemmy app still gives you your total "karma" score for some reason
It was removed from the web ui but was still left in the API.
dessalines:
I honestly forget it's there most of the time as I don't typically look up my own profile lol
You need some way to order stuff. How would you prefer to order content if not by votes? Isn't votes at least a somewhat democratic way to do it? And much like democracy, it might not be great but I have no better ideas.
Traditionally, forums just sort by time. Doesn't scale that well for big places obviously
Just make me godking of the universe and I'll put it all right.
And as case in point, some dickhole already felt the need to apply one downvote to your very factual comment.
Lol yup, at which point I giggle and move on with my day