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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

If by centrists, you mean neo-liberal Democrats, you got it.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I would not mean those people because I would consider them to be on the right. I mean people to the left of them but not left enough to reject corporate influence and embrace ideas like socialized medicine and housing.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I guess I see neo-liberals (focusing on white liberalism as a political movement) as not seeing themselves on the right. They think of themselves as being on the left, but are effectively antagonistic towards leftist policies, a highlighted example of this being the tension between "mainstream" Democrats and the progressive caucus within the Democratic party. White liberalalist ideology is fundamentally Neo-liberal and anti-revolutionary. Bipartisanship, institutionalism, incrementalism, these are the hallmarks of white liberalism. They extend from the ideals of a class of people who benefit from the existing structures in society. They don't support racisim 'explcity' but they do benefit from it implicitly, and so support the institutions that build a racist society. In this way they can 'oppose' racism, but still benefit from it. They support 'change' but only want to pursue it in nickels and dimes, unwilling to commit to universal programs that benefit everyone (Obamacare is a perfect example of this). White-liberals have no problem making common cause with explicitly fascist or racist groups, because to them the politeness of society is more important than its outcomes. Not Nazis, but willing to caucus with them. See the recent border vote for an example of this.

Its easy and convenient to see right-wing fascist as the entirety of the problem, but those people would have no ability to drive their agenda forward if not for white liberals. White liberalism ineffectual approach to governing, disinterest in revolutionary or universal programs, and insistence on decorum and appearances is fundamental to why the right-wing has been so effective and capable in furthering their project and agenda. This is why everyone should be challenged by the blue-no-matter-who arguments. All you have to do is look at the previous 24 years of history to recognize that this is a fundamentally white-liberal argument (as in, a direct extension of white liberalism as a political philosophy). Its not working. It hasn't worked. It doesn't work. We shouldn't expect it to work in the future. IT results in the worst possible match ups to win elections. If you are a leftist, it leaves you strategically vulnerable at every possible turn and historically has generated only negative progress.

White-liberalism is the second partner in a dance with white-nationalism towards fashism. White nationalists simply would not have been able to progress their agenda this far without it. It wasn't just the Nazis that drove Germany into fascism. It was also the other parties who empowered, emboldened, and appeased the Nazis in their pursuit of power, which is precisely what we see 'moderate' Democrats doing today. If you want to deal with the rise of fascism in the US, you need to address white liberalisms control of the Democratic party first.

[-] hglman@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago
[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

yeah well, people here don't.

this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
1013 points (88.9% liked)

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