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this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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She doesn't know she needs to. She can't humanize the other side. Something I think you can relate to. I'm not at all against calling out JK Rowling and her absolutely toxic viewpoint. I'm actually advocating for it. I'm calling out your toxic viewpoint because "Fuck JK Rowling" isn't a heroic position that's just "calling someone out". It's a vilifying statement that provides no path to redemption. It's a selfish position you take to alleviate yourself of the responsibility of putting in the work to try and help the other person understand what they need to. While simultaneously making yourself feel like a champion.
I think if you set aside your ego and think about the times in your life when you got something wrong, you were only able to grow from it if your community (or maybe friends or family) help you to do so.
If you assume everyone that does a bad thing is evil, you'll lose the fight pretty quick. When you keep pouring your hate into other people because they gave you a chance to do it while feeling righteous, the other side will gladly take them as soldiers. You're just as responsible for those "horrific effects" as the people encouraging JK Rowling.
Imagine someone with the influence and platform of JK Rowling being on our side rather than pulling this shit. She could be an inspiration to all TERFs if we could make her understand the error of her ways. Even if she never did, I promise you, she wouldn't be as extreme as she is now if people spent more time talking to her with basic respect and patience. Rather than selfishly using her as a conduit for their anger over the issue, however justified that rage may be.
I understand that a lot of people are traumatized and pissed and it sucks. But we've got to talk to each other. I know that in the end you want to make the world a better place. So hear this: any relationship without constructive conversation is doomed. We know they're not going to pull their weight. So we've got to pull double. Don't tell me it's not your responsibility, because you're right. But it doesn't change the fact that they're going to go out next election and make their vote. Nor does it change the fact that they're going to keep donating to horrible institutions. So it's got to be us. We've got to be the adults.
She is a billionaire that invests her resources into persecuting people for who they are and simply existing. Your acting as if she's some teenager that said something without thinking. She a full grown adult who should know better, but instead acts like a child having a tantrum whenever she's called out. I'm just some person saying fuck her for all of her bullshit. Don't pretend as if we're the same. We are not.
Your attempt to compare us is not only disingenuous, but your rhetoric is actively condoning the multiple transphobic actions JK Rowling has made. She doesn't deserve coddling: she's fucking 58 years old. We can talk about human connection and pretend that "cancel culture" exists all we want. That doesn't change the fact that she started raging against people's human rights and then doubled down when called out. And until she recognizes how harmful her actions are she doesn't deserve the slightest bit of consideration or pity. She doesn't give it to the trans community, why the fuck should I give it to her? Just so she can spit on it and tell me to go die? Fuck that.
Though that's a point I don't expect someone yelling "cancel culture" to actually absorb and reflect on.
Billionaire*
Even worse. Updated
Of course she doubled down when she was "called out" by your definition. With zero compassion or path for redemption. That's my point. But no I guess I got infected by the idea of "cancel culture is bad", sorry. I'm so silly. You're right, spewing hate at people is the way to go, idk why I didn't see it before. Maybe because that's what's happening and it hasn't worked so far. But you're right, if we scream a little louder she'll have to understand she's wrong. Any day now 😂
Birds of a feather flock together, guess that's why you're defending JK Rowling. Cancel culture is a made up term used to place blame for someone's bad actions on the victims/group calling it out. Before the made up term "cancel culture" it was just called consequences.
Cry all you want about something made up, JK Rowling deserves no sympathy and is an utter piece of shit. The fact that you're so insistant on that tells me everything I need to know about your feelings towards trans people.
At a certain point, you have to realize that you are allowing the anger you carry to get in the day of making improvements.
We are all here talking about how had JK Rowling is, yet none of us probably went out today to give food to the homeless trans youth.
At a certain point, we have to realize that JK Rowling is a prop we use to make ourselves feel better without actually putting in the work to combat the right.
You can speak for yourself in that regard. I work with, hangout with, donate to, and live with trans people. The issue is a very deep and real one to me because transphobia affects every aspect of my loved ones lives. On top of that: defending tranphobes actively helps and emboldens the right.
The right want nothing more than the ability to say and do whatever they want with impunity. I will call out bigoted acts every time because that's part of combatting them. Not placating these ideas as if they're kids that don't know better.
Again, JK Rowling has never engaged with the trans community in good faith. She deserves literally nothing; and unless she has a gargantuan reversal of thoughts and actions then she can fuck off forever.
And you are definitely doing more than almost all of us, but I think my point still stands: consuming media that let's us rage at bigots in Scotland probably has no positive impact on people within our own communities.
This woman was already canceled. The people who canceled her don't get to keep making her a topic of discussion. The rest of us are trying to follow through on the banishment. Continuing to engage with her is hurting only you.
But that's exactly my point: She wasn't cancelled. She continues to make hand over fist in cash while maintaining her status as a billionaire and prolific writer. All while using her money and reputation to ruin trans people's lives while crying as the victim.
If you're tired of hearing about JK Rowling that's valid. If I never heard of her again I'd be more than happy. But the point is that she continues to gain coverage/attention in her fight against trans rights with startlingly effective results. So long as trans people are being persecuted then in my opinion we can't leave these things be. Because silence will only embolden those with these ways of thinking.
I apologize if I've been short with you. The last OP kept acting like they knew me or have any context for why I feel the way that I do. I'm very opinionated on the subject; but the people I love are affected by issues like this so I have to be.
Is she that prolific?
She just had a film series canceled for not being profitable, and I guess writes noir fiction under a pen name, where the hero is a trans detective? Has anybody ever read this book series?
Even the video game was largely only as successful as it was because they leveraged the backlash before release.
It feels like it has been a decade now since she has been relevant to anybody. The only media I see about her is her continued bigotry, which isn't "new" s.
She's a narcissist getting a kick out of getting every stupid thought she has going viral. We need to stop making it go viral.
Harry Potter is a big enough IP for her to ride that fame and money for the rest of her life. A lot of people will only ever know her through that and continue to hold reverence for her. That's more what I was referring to in terms of prolific.
And ultimately her drivel will go viral regardless of if we want it to or not. Some billionaires have a habit of soaking up as much attention as possible. In my opinion it's better to speak against it and hope she eventually disappears permanently. The alternative is say nothing and let her words fester and possibly infect more minds.
But she never will disappear completely, none of these people ever will.
At the end of the day, the bigot cruising the nearest strip to find a queer to kill was never set on that path by listening to the opinions of a woman long after she stopped writing the 1 thing she was good at.
I just wonder if she might be a lightning rod that steers our attention away from the forces that to send men down that path.
I think at this point we may be in general agreement with disagreements on specifics. I don't want to make a billion posts and be overly semantic; so I'll say I can generally agree with that.
If you want to see how I feel about people that are exclusionary towards trans people and a further example of the kind of discussion I intend to promote, check out this comment I made further down in this thread. I think you have a habit of vilifying the people you disagree with in order to alleviate the discomfort It creates to genuinely consider their position and be compassionate to someone you disagree with. You should try and change that. It's not easy, but it's really important. I tell you this because I know you're a good person who clearly wants to make the world a better place for diverse people. This will make you so much more effective.
i would love to hear your first-hand experience with the approach you advocate.
Certainly! So in my response to the next comment in the chain, I posted a link to another comment I made in this thread. They didn't engage with me, so it's a limited example. It was responding to someone who grew up with an apparently abusive cross dressing or trans individual. This person was sexually inappropriate and seemed to harass the commenter.
Here in lies... probably the key to the whole approach. Understanding. People's most extreme takes are often forged from very formative experiences they've had. This is a big source of the rising levels of hatred we aim at each other. Both sides can't seem to fathom why the other would act the way they do, because it's at extreme odds with their own experience. But there's often a pretty valid scar underneath it, even if their final take away is completely incorrect and toxic.
This is why bigots get so defensive when attacked. They know, in their mind, 110%, they have a valid trauma. But they can't separate that from their shitty conclusion and the people correcting them can't help because they don't know about the trauma. They never will, because they've created an environment that's not safe for the other side to share a deep trauma.
This commenter bared their heart upfront but that's rare and even more so when you're not anonymous online. Here are some more experiences from my perspective.
Acquaintances and strangers: This is probably the most straightforward to see yourself. The next time somebody says something you disagree with, say, "I have a different viewpoint, but tell me why you think that way ... Ok so here's why I think you're off base..." Note how this conversation goes with this foundation
VS
The next time, after that, someone says something you disagree with, say, " FUCK YOU!! EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU TOXIC FUCK!!!" and note how that conversational foundation goes.
I've been on both sides of both of these interactions and it's night and day the kind of conversation you end up having.
Family: I have a very conservative family, but the younger generation has several liberals. When I listen to family members talk politics, they treat it as a zero-sum game. They're going to change the others opinion no matter what. This is where you can most obviously see the shift from a productive conversation into people shouting. There's a point where people aren't actually discussing anything anymore but saying more and more extreme things until they're just calling each other terrible people.
However, when I talk to my family about politics, I ask them what they're trying to achieve with their ideology. I asked for practical examples about how that will be achieved. I bring up issues that I think will occur in this application, compassionately. I share with them the ways in which I want to help make the world a better place. I point out the ways in which our views align. And why I think they eventually diverge. Occasionally they will rise into an emotional state where they begin to call me a terrible person, but I keep the olive branch extended, and patiently leave myself open for more productive conversation if and when they calm down.
Sometimes they don't. But oftentimes they do. I know I at least have learned a lot about why my family members think the ways they do, which does a lot to assuage my own anger. That's already a big benefit. They want people to be happy, healthy, safe, and prosperous, they're just mixed up on how to achieve it.
But I also see a similar effect in them. They're more likely to express their thoughts and opinions to me. Even when they know I'm not going to agree. They still think they're right, of course, and that I'll eventually see that. But by coming to me they're effectively welcoming an alternative perspective into their thought process. And actually taking the time to understand it (to refute it) rather than just accepting the reactionary strawman version they hear on Fox News.
I don't think I'll ever see them vote for a liberal candidate in my life, but I know I'm helping them not slip further into extremity. I was almost floored when my mom condemned the absurdity of Trump recently. She followed up with some backwards shit about education, but still. Progress! I could tell she enjoyed sharing something that we could agree on.
this kinda sounds like victim blaming. you're putting it on trans people to tolerate hateful attacks and change their attackers' minds, lest those people become more extreme when they're rightfully called out. compare to any other minority/targeted group and those who hate them and listen to how your argument sounds.
naw. sorry, it's on shitty people like Rowling to stop being shitty.
When you say "it's on Rowling", if there's some sense of grand justice in the cosmos, you're right. But in the real, "we actually have to live on this planet with each other", sense? No sorry, we're fucked if you're just going to vent your anger and call that progress.
It's like you're standing on the deck of a sinking ship with your arms folded grumbling, "Not my fault we're sinking". You can debate the moral justice of your position 'til we're all underwater. Or you can grab a wrench and actually help.
You bring up a really great point and a glaring omission in my previous comments. So thanks for your comment. I'm not saying that you should be subjected to hateful people if you're mentally unable to withstand that. Just like I'm not saying you should go to war if you have a bad knee. Your health and well-being should be your first concern. In fact you'll probably just do more harm than good if you're not fit and ready to fight that fight. When you do choose to fight, you've got to be ready, because it won't be easy.
There should be safe spaces for Trans people or anyone, devoid of these toxic aggressors. Places where they can vent and say, "Fuck you JK Rowling!!" and not have to worry someone is going to come in and challenge their identity and truth. If you need to sort through your trauma and get therapy, by all means, stay away from toxic assholes until you're on stable ground. Secure your mask before helping others.
But if we're trying to think of how we might actually be able to better the growing toxic divide between the right and left, it's not more toxicity. When we actually interact or post something intended to be seen by someone like JK Rowling, they don't see your anger as consequences. They see it as justification that they were right all along. When you come out to fight you've got to leave the hateful venting at the door and try and build some kind of productive discourse. Communication is the basis for ANY productive relationship.
Edit: Just saw this very appropriate video that came out 2 hours ago, lol. Sort of a counter point to my point of view. But still very interesting.