227
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
227 points (98.7% liked)
News
23301 readers
3530 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
He was murdered by the state. That's what the "death penalty" is. It's state-sanctioned murder. Barbarous.
We also have state-sanctioned kidnapping, wherein the convicted are taken from their families and held against their will, sometimes for years at a time.
There are many good arguments against the death penalty. I don't think those that just rephrase what is done in an emotional way are good ones.
And the whole property seizure without due process thing (civil forfeiture) although each of these is somewhat less important than the last.
no, you're right, especially as nearly every single independent study agrees with your first paragraph.
Prison generates profit first, solves crime... well not second, maybe ninth? Sixteenth? A hundred and twenty eighth?
I mean, you could argue that even if the criminal justice system in the US were massively improved, there would still be no reason to have the death penalty. And yet there could still be good reason to keep imprisonment as a consequence for many types of crimes.
I'm curious what your alternative is.
I don't think you want to tie getting rid of the death penalty to current inequities and private prison corruption unless in your ideal system it should make a return.
it's not about "me" or "my" alternatives as I am not an expert. however, look at Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands and New Zealand.
The kidnapping analogy also applies to the Nordic countries, the Netherlands, and New Zealand. They all have governments which detain people against their will.
you have absolutely lost my interest in this conversation if you're going to flat out state that the Nordic system is identical to the US
But they didn't say that though?
They pointed out those countries also have jails/prisons that detain people against their will. That isn't the same as saying the systems are identical.
yeah but the differences are so obvious there's no point in me engaging in this conversation, it's just a snooze fest of saying obvious things and arguing over semantics.
If they're engaging in gotchas like "oh HO, YOU said that the US prison system doesn't work and yet you acknowledge that in better systems they imprison people a LOT less, but that still means they imprison SOME people."
it's like yeah, thanks, I know, not interested in having a conversation like that.
You have to read back through the thread. The whole point is that every country on earth justifies imprisonment for crimes. Calling it kidnapping doesn't make it wrong.
The same is true of the death penalty. Calling it murder doesn't make it wrong. It's a bad argument. This sub-thread was on that narrow topic.
the comment I was responding to was suggesting (paraphrased) "execution isn't murder like imprisonment isn't kidnapping, you're just using emotive language to score points"
and I said (paraphrased) "many studies have proven that imprisonment doesn't work and therefore is actually an emotional reaction"
they said "yes but they still imprison people"
and I said "yes but they have better systems"
and they said "YES BUT they STILL imprison people"
I said "ok but that's not a very interesting conversation"
you said, "but they're right"
and i said "ok but that's not a very interesting converstion"
and you said "but they're right"
so - is this an interesting conversation to you? it's not to me.
Ok, I understand your perspective now. No, it's just going in circles. Let's move on.
Murder means an unlawful killing, a lawful killing as in this case is the opposite of a murder. For an example of a true murder, look no further than the actions of the executed man: he killed his cousin and her husband after calling them for help.
He also had a well-documented history of mental illness, which would have been a defense to the death penalty, and an exemplary record as an inmate. More than 70 correctional officers signed the petition begging for him not to be murdered by the state.
And murder is the intentional killing of a human being. The fact that someone signs a piece of paper that says it's okay doesn't change the nature of the act.
I looked it up and every definition website includes that it has to be illegal to be considered murder. By your definition every instance of self-defense is murder.
No it isn't. Murder is illegal killing of someone else. No reasonable person is going to call you a murderer if you kill someone who is trying to kill you and you reasonably believe you have no other choice.
You're thinking of the term homicide, which isn't always murder.
Too bad they couldn't kill him twice. Seeing as how he's a double murderer.
Ex ept this smells like they got the wrong guy.
Oh well, more meat for the pile.
When I take control of Missouri, I will make existing as a human in Missouri a crime mandatorily punished by death.
🥱
Something tells me you won't be so gung-ho about saying that in the real world.
Probably because rational people will start looking at you funny, lol.
Why would he have problems saying this IRL?
Not sure what sociopaths you hang out with, but as long as you didn't actually say it like a lunatic, I don't think most people would look at you funny.
I've said a similar thing many times in the real world. Most people agree the state shouldn't be deciding who lives and dies, a lot just because they are known to make mistakes and murder innocent people.
Rational people are actually the people against state sanctioned killings usually. Not the other way around.
Yeah, no.
Mention child rapists and they change their tune, real quick.
Nope. That’s just your terminally online experience.
Not really.
People who are in support of the death penalty baffle me. Next to no one is happy about the government right now, and you trust these people with the power to kill whoever they want?
You trust them to imprison whoever they want?
At least imprisonment can be ended.
There’s lots of countries without the death penalty so I don’t think you thought this out.